Brexit slowly becoming a Farce.

[DeeTillEhDeh]

It’s a hoary old cliche to claim that power corrupts. It can, but it doesn’t necessarily. Is every boss in a management position corrupt? Is every police officer corrupt? How about every leader of every political party; has every single one been corrupted? It’s just a lazy bromide.
The fact is that certain powerful institutions can be enabled to allow corruption, depending on the soundness of monitoring processes, the ability of an engaged populace to question authority via open and accountable means, and the willingness of the people in charge to play by the rules. Similarly, strong checks and balances, impartial watchdogs, and a willingness of electors and appointers to hold incuments to account can help guard against corruption. But that doesn’t make for a catchy aphorism.

And absolute power corrupts absolutely.

Hence any independent Parliament should be one that doesn't give absolute power to the Executive.

As you say - appropriate checks and balances.

[The_Kincardine]

31 minutes ago, The_Kincardine said:

I watched us hand Albania a footballing lesson last night.  Not often you see Scotland boss a team away from home.  An enjoyable watch and a rare one from someone who started supporting Scotland in the mid 60s.

 

13 minutes ago, lichtgilphead said:

It's telling that you appear to be more interested in looking at a forum and looking for anti-Rangers bias rather than watching & enjoying an excellent Scotland performance.

I'm not sure what type of idiot you have to be to reach that conclusion from my post.  Oh I know!  An empty-headed yesser!

[lichtgilphead]

6 minutes ago, The_Kincardine said:

 

I'm not sure what type of idiot you have to be to reach that conclusion from my post.  Oh I know!  An empty-headed yesser that goes to Hampden to support Scotland, regardless of however many Old Firm players are selected to start!

FTFY

Fancy meeting up for a pint before the game?

[NotThePars]

You would hope an independent Scotland would localise powers as much as possible and seek to democratise decision making in a modern socialist fashion. We have the tech and the potential to do so.

[Granny Danger]

29 minutes ago, DeeTillEhDeh said:

And absolute power corrupts absolutely.

Hence any independent Parliament should be one that doesn't give absolute power to the Executive.

As you say - appropriate checks and balances.

Any legislation should have to be supported by a poll on this forum  first.  You know it makes sense.

[Tibbermoresaint]

1 minute ago, Granny Danger said:

Any legislation should have to be supported by a poll on this forum  first.  You know it makes sense.

Why bother with a Parliament? Let the will of P&B prevail.

[The_Kincardine]

12 minutes ago, lichtgilphead said:

Fancy meeting up for a pint before the game?

Sure.  A pint in The Saracen's Head?  My first shout.

[lichtgilphead]

1 minute ago, The_Kincardine said:

Sure.  A pint in The Saracen's Head?  My first shout.

The Gallowgate isn't exactly on the way in from deepest Argyll. Would have thought you were more of a Louden Tavern type.

How about the Bellrock? Near enough to Ibrox, and a good Arbroath name? What time do you get into Glasgow?

 

[The_Kincardine]

15 minutes ago, The_Kincardine said:

Sure.  A pint in The Saracen's Head?  My first shout.

 

4 minutes ago, lichtgilphead said:

The Gallowgate isn't exactly on the way in from deepest Argyll.

It's in Amersham, buddy.  They serve an excellent pint of London Pride.  Still, if it's too far out of your way I'd understand.

[lichtgilphead]

1 minute ago, The_Kincardine said:

 

It's in Amersham, buddy.  They serve an excellent pint of London Pride.  Still, if it's too far out of your way I'd understand.

How do you plan to get from there to Hampden in time for kick-off? If I finish work at 4 in Helensburgh, I should be OK, even factoring in time for food & beer.

You really haven't thought this through, have you.

[John Lambies Doos]

How do you plan to get from there to Hampden in time for kick-off? If I finish work at 4 in Helensburgh, I should be OK, even factoring in time for food & beer.
You really haven't thought this through, have you.

Hth

[lichtgilphead]

Oh.

I was sooooo looking forward to a pint of London's Pride.

I'm devastated. Was Kincy lying about his support for the Scotland team? I really thought he was a true supporter.

 

[JamieThomas]

1 hour ago, NotThePars said:

You would hope an independent Scotland would localise powers as much as possible and seek to democratise decision making in a modern socialist fashion. We have the tech and the potential to do so.

An independent Scotland would have enough money to pay a living wage to every citizen, and a surplus.

If the landowners who took a petted lip because they got properly taxed left, we'd be able to pay each person more.

It's a tough choice.

 

[JamieThomas]

33 minutes ago, ancientnoise said:

Remember that higher taxes are a penalty on the "hard working". This is a strange meme that's often touted. Bizarre.

It's almost as if - and anyone on this website can call me a dafty here - the super rich people on the island want to keep every single penny for themselves, and f**k everyone else until they die.

Wild.

Edited November 19, 2018 by JamieThomas

[vikingTON]

6 hours ago, pandarilla said:

It's really not obvious at all.

Power corrupts. Independence would give Holyrood substantially more power, and I'm not in any way convinced it wouldn't eventually sink to the cesspit levels so currently evident at Westminster.

That would be why independent states like Norway and Denmark are notorious for their corruption - they're just like Ukraine or Somalia. 

[glasgow-sheep]

From an NI perspective it's a very good deal economically (in the short term, maybe in the longer term, too) Business organisations and the Ulster Farmers Union have been very supportive of this deal. Also it gives the fishing industry here - such as it is - encouragement.
However, in the long term it's a bad deal constituitonally - it separates us from GB and can only lead to greater separation in the years to come, and having to adhere to EU rules and regulations with no input, although I'm not sure how much influence our MEPs wielded in Brussels/Strasbourg.
On the other hand NI voted "Remain". On the third hand it was a UK wide vote. What to do?

This is only if the backstop is required, which it won't.

[glasgow-sheep]

My preference is remain but can't see any realistic pathway to this. Tories won't offer a second referendum, even if labour had the power to offer one they won't commit to having remain on the ballot.

Worst possible option is no deal and handing the lunatics exactly what they want. The deal May has come back with keeps trade much as it is for the next two years during which pressure can be applied for the closest trade arrangement available.

The back stop which everyone is getting upset about is the only realistic option acceptable to RoI and the EU and in any case will never happen.

Article 50 doesn't allow negotiation of the future relationship until we have actually left so this blind Brexit bullshit is also misleading.

If we have to leave, which partly due to the shambles in labour we will, I think this is as good a deal as May is likely to get and we should now focus on the next two yrs trade negotiation than allowing the DUP and ERG lead us to no deal.

A general election seems unlikely too but would be an absolute shit show. The party system would largely be redundant given the divisions in the two main parties, neither would be able to agree a manifesto position on Brexit and perhaps should see remain, pro deal and no deal factions split off temporarily to sort this mess out but would leave none with a majority anyway.

[Savage Henry]

Finally Danny Dyer has broken his silence on the issue.  Unsurprisingly, he's pro May.

Danny Dyer Speaks His Brains

[harry94]

1 hour ago, glasgow-sheep said:

My preference is remain but can't see any realistic pathway to this. Tories won't offer a second referendum, even if labour had the power to offer one they won't commit to having remain on the ballot.

Worst possible option is no deal and handing the lunatics exactly what they want. The deal May has come back with keeps trade much as it is for the next two years during which pressure can be applied for the closest trade arrangement available.

The back stop which everyone is getting upset about is the only realistic option acceptable to RoI and the EU and in any case will never happen.

Article 50 doesn't allow negotiation of the future relationship until we have actually left so this blind Brexit bullshit is also misleading.

If we have to leave, which partly due to the shambles in labour we will, I think this is as good a deal as May is likely to get and we should now focus on the next two yrs trade negotiation than allowing the DUP and ERG lead us to no deal.

A general election seems unlikely too but would be an absolute shit show. The party system would largely be redundant given the divisions in the two main parties, neither would be able to agree a manifesto position on Brexit and perhaps should see remain, pro deal and no deal factions split off temporarily to sort this mess out but would leave none with a majority anyway.

That's just how I see it too. Neither party want to be seen as 'defied the will of the people' and risk that ammunition being against them for a decade and having to navigate the tricky waters of this issue being unresolved and another referendum in the future (leaving the EU isn't just some fringe view that's going away, it's been relatively popular for a long time with those who normally turn out to vote and I suspect a future Tory leader could be pressured into it again if it helped their electoral votes). No deal again is an economic disaster and blood on their hands.

My instinct is that once we're in December and the vote is a reality, we'll see the likes of Soubry on the Conservative benches who have been campaigning for people's vote fall in line and Labour votes also comfortably make up for the few ERG and DUP votes that will be lost (although I suspect that a few of the ERG shit themselves). Even the SNP will be a bit nervous if it comes to voting between what's on the table and nothing at all.

I think the 'no deal' people don't realise that the trade deal is going to be much harder to negotiate with how it can be vetoed on the EU side so easily and the power they actually hold (while it's just a majority vote in this case). I suspect a lot of the talk about planes not flying etc would not materialise but there are industries that would suffer (particularly assembly lines) and huge job losses in year one. The priorities of the trade deal would be somewhat different once the realities of a 'hard brexit' kick in and those EU countries that have profited with the assembly lines arriving there would be in no mood to do anything to give that back up. The withdrawal agreement at least gives a starting point of being able to function and defend the economy in some way.

The whole thing is stupid as f**k but this is the least shitty outcome I can see if there's no path to reversal and I'd be quite angry if some notable remainers did go down the route of obstructing this but have no viable plan in place and the clock runs out.

[Jacksgranda]

11 minutes ago, Savage Henry said:

 

Danny Dyer Speaks His Brains

Did he fart?