Granny Danger Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 It's sad to see people buying into project fear. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 I'd go for the withdrawal deal too, then reapply for membership during the transition period after a second referendum or GE fought on the issue. The first referendum result will have been respected, and the second. Peace and harmony will return to the land. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 14 hours ago, pandarilla said: There's less money involved and so less corruption. I take your point though, as it's very naive to think that our politicians are somehow a better class of people. I don't think that as we've plenty of no users up here, however the difference is that we can influence their political direction and if they aren't performing we can remove them. Unfortunately as part of the UK our votes count for nothing up here and we're stuck with the self serving scum that we've got. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 Watching the various contributions at the weekend it both pleased and depressed me that Nicola Sturgeon was the only one I saw who made any sense. I imagine there must be many Labour members and supporters who are astounded at Corbyn saying that he is not sure how he would vote in a second referendum. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRob72 Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 It's sad to see people buying into project fear.Thought the two posts above from Harry 94 and Glasgow Sheep, were fair and balanced, it would be heartening to know that an increasing number of politicians & observers are drawing the same conclusion as March quickly approaches. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsimButtHitsASix Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 4 minutes ago, Granny Danger said: Watching the various contributions at the weekend it both pleased and depressed me that Nicola Sturgeon was the only one I saw who made any sense. I imagine there must be many Labour members and supporters who are astounded at Corbyn saying that he is not sure how he would vote in a second referendum. There's also a chance he's playing a blinder. He knows a lot of working class Labour supporters, especially from the North, voted to leave so can't afford to alienate them. On the other hand the remain voters in the south are probably gonna stick with Labour no matter what he says as they're still more likely to bring about a 2nd referendum than the Tories. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Gaines Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 I'd wager that another reason he doesn't want to say what way he'd vote is because he knows he'd vote for Brexit again. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 9 minutes ago, RedRob72 said: Thought the two posts above from Harry 94 and Glasgow Sheep, were fair and balanced, it would be heartening to know that an increasing number of politicians & observers are drawing the same conclusion as March quickly approaches. Like I say project fear. An absolutely atrocious deal which puts us in a far worse position than we are at present whilst giving more control to the EU. The ONLY reason to back it is fear of a No Deal Brexit which Parliament simply won’t vote for. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacksgranda Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 23 minutes ago, Granny Danger said: Like I say project fear. An absolutely atrocious deal which puts us in a far worse position than we are at present whilst giving more control to the EU. The ONLY reason to back it is fear of a No Deal Brexit which Parliament simply won’t vote for. O.K., Parliament votes down the deal on the table - then what? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 Just now, Jacksgranda said: O.K., Parliament votes down the deal on the table - then what? In answering that I’m simply repeating what I have posted at least twice already in the last few days. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotThePars Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 I'd wager that another reason he doesn't want to say what way he'd vote is because he knows he'd vote for Brexit again.I didn’t realise Chris Bryant posted on this forum. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HTG Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 The posts from Glasgow Sheep and Harry are decent efforts to argue a case but ... The backstop is written in for a reason. If it's not needed or would never be used then take it out. Like every contingency there is potential to use it. And in this case, it's there because 30 months has produced no workable solution to the Irish border. As long as it is a contingency, rUK is at a disadvantage because there is no such contingency. There is no way that this should be voted through and then Scotland told to get back in its box because "aye it's there but we won't use it so pipe down up the back". Nor should Scotland accept a scenario which kicks this can further down the road which is inevitably the line that will be taken. It's a shite outcome. Fluffy was on the radio this morning refusing to answer why he was backing a proposal that was worse than the status quo. His only response was that it's better than a No Deal. That's maybe true but it's not good enough. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 7 minutes ago, Jacksgranda said: O.K., Parliament votes down the deal on the table - then what? 1) May's position is untenable and she finally gets to f**k. 2) Tories hold a leadership election. 3) If/when the next and very gammony Tory leader can't get a deal through Parliament then they'll have zero legitimacy left and so a snap election is called. The probable majority of pro-Remain MPs elected scrap the entire mess and move to remain within the EU after all. And at any point in 1) and 2) Parliament can pass bills and/or amendments to reject the UK crashing into a no deal scenario by default. And the EU will naturally be supportive of these efforts. All of this is entirely straightforward; emptying May and her zombie-bigot coalition from power alone is worth it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacksgranda Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 (edited) On 17/11/2018 at 12:15, Granny Danger said: We organise a further referendum and ask the EU to extend article 50. They will bend over backwards to do so. ^^^ Is this your position? You never answered any of the points raised below. Maybe they're all bullshit posters too, suckered in by Project Fear. On 17/11/2018 at 12:19, NotThePars said: Genuine question. Who's going to organise this referendum and get EU consent to extend Article 50? Theresa May has no interest in holding one, or another general election. On 17/11/2018 at 12:22, Detournement said: Exactly. And that's why the Brexiteers who aren't characters from a George Eliot novel are sitting tight. They will wait until we leave in the spring then go to town on the deal. On 17/11/2018 at 12:23, Sergeant Wilson said: Civil Servants will do it. It just needs a political decision to do it. On 17/11/2018 at 12:25, Granny Danger said: And it’s very possible that decision will be out of May’s hands whether she remains PM or not. On 17/11/2018 at 12:28, Detournement said: Only the government can negotiate with the EU and only the government can set a referendum question. ETA: vTon addresses these points - don't know whether what he sets out is feasible/likely. Might be the answer. Edited November 19, 2018 by Jacksgranda 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Lambies Doos Posted November 19, 2018 Author Share Posted November 19, 2018 Thought the two posts above from Harry 94 and Glasgow Sheep, were fair and balanced, it would be heartening to know that an increasing number of politicians & observers are drawing the same conclusion as March quickly approaches. As did I to be fair. Lest we not forget old man danger voted for this mess. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Lambies Doos Posted November 19, 2018 Author Share Posted November 19, 2018 There are now suggestions that the transition period may be extended for another 2 yrs. The froth of the fishermen will be delightful. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacksgranda Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 (edited) 8 minutes ago, John Lambies Doos said: There are now suggestions that the transition period may be extended for another 2 yrs. The froth of the fishermen will be delightful. Where? Can't find anything. Edited November 19, 2018 by Jacksgranda 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 23 minutes ago, Jacksgranda said: ^^^ Is this your position? You never answered any of the points raised below. Maybe they're all bullshit posters too, suckered in by Project Fear. Yes it’s my position. The idea that if Parliament rejects May’s plan that she’s just going to do nothing is the epitome of Project Fear. If Parliament decides a course of action which is ignored then you will have a constitutional crisis. What is laughable (in a very dark way) is that no one is saying “this is a really good deal”; no one is even saying “this is a fairly good deal”. Backing a deal that everyone knows is shit because people are being conned into believing nothing better is achievable is shocking and sad. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 Still needs a 2/3rds majority in the Commons to call a GE which is by no means certain. With Labour having no credible position or alternative Brexit strategy I can't see Parliament agreeing on anything. Asking for an extension to the March date is probably the most likely, but Parliament is such a clusterfuck at the moment I could see us going straight over the cliff. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Lambies Doos Posted November 19, 2018 Author Share Posted November 19, 2018 Where? Can't find anything.Today's guardian. Also on today's RTE articlehttps://www.rte.ie/news/brexit/2018/1119/1011805-brexit-transition-barnier/ 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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