Fullerene Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 When it comes to the American Civil War, I like the story of Harper's Ferry in West Virginia. The North was against the Southern States seceding from the union but perfectly happy for West Virginia to secede from the rest of Virginia - but that is another story. Anyway, Harper's Ferry was surrounded by hills and impossible to defend - so for the South it was an easy early victory. Then, the North decided they wanted it back and since it was impossible to defend - they did so easily. Then, the South came back and took over again. The place changed hands eight times during the war. Must have been very tiresome for the people who lived there. Shopkeepers had to change the currency for their prices. Portraits and flags going back into storage and the other ones coming out. Even the songs would have to change. "Robert E Lee is the greatest General that ever lived, er, um - Not! What a nightmare. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bob Mahelp Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 (edited) 35 minutes ago, Fullerene said: When it comes to the American Civil War, I like the story of Harper's Ferry in West Virginia. The North was against the Southern States seceding from the union but perfectly happy for West Virginia to secede from the rest of Virginia - but that is another story. Anyway, Harper's Ferry was surrounded by hills and impossible to defend - so for the South it was an easy early victory. Then, the North decided they wanted it back and since it was impossible to defend - they did so easily. Then, the South came back and took over again. The place changed hands eight times during the war. Must have been very tiresome for the people who lived there. Shopkeepers had to change the currency for their prices. Portraits and flags going back into storage and the other ones coming out. Even the songs would have to change. "Robert E Lee is the greatest General that ever lived, er, um - Not! What a nightmare. Absolutely true, but it pales when compared with Winchester, Va., which changed hands 72 times during the war....once 13 times in a single day. https://www.encyclopediavirginia.org/Winchester_During_the_Civil_War That must have been fun. Patsy Cline was also born in Winchester, so the city has had it's share of sorrow to bear. Edited August 21, 2017 by Bob Mahelp 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheProgressiveLiberal Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 13 hours ago, NotThePars said: Looks like the Progressive Liberal has been triggered This is correct. Now I guess I know how liberals feel when somebody disagrees with them. Anyways, I just needed a country song about Jesus and guns in my safe space to allow me to be able to deal with the world again. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheProgressiveLiberal Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 9 hours ago, welshbairn said: Good point. How come they didn't complain about scrounging slaves bringing down wages and join up with the North? We got slaves because rich people wanted cheaper labor, and more importantly, labor that they can control more easily for more efficient work. It's the same thought process behind why our rich today are so fanatically pro-immigration. As for why they fought, the same reason people fight for their homeland all the time. The devil I know, buying into the local propaganda, once the war starts it's always better in the short term for your side to win, patriotism, conscription, etc. 6 hours ago, Glenconner said: Doubt anybody in the South didn't know a slave owner or see a slave market. There was 4/5 million slaves ffs, were they all in hiding. Most whites were directly affected by the slave economy to some degree. A slave economy benefits the super rich. Obviously the slaves are fucked, but so are the working and middle classes. Slavery didn't build this country. It made a few people obscenely rich while holding back a proper society based on broadly shared prosperity. 7 hours ago, Enigma said: If I remember correctly New York State was very close to joining with the South. Largely due to the Irish immigrant population's fears of freed slaves coming north and undercutting them in the labour market. New York would never have joined the Confederacy, but you are correct that large portions of the Irish working class in east coast cities were Copperhead Democrats who favored letting the South go. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fullerene Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 (edited) 22 minutes ago, Bob Mahelp said: Absolutely true, but it pales when compared with Winchester, Va., which changed hands 72 times during the war....once 13 times in a single day. https://www.encyclopediavirginia.org/Winchester_During_the_Civil_War That must have been fun. Patsy Cline was also born in Winchester, so the city has had it's share of sorrow to bear. Yeah. Some people were all for the Civil War because they thought it would be fun and might liven things up a little. Up until then a lot of Americans had not really known much about war and had some strange ideas. When the Battle of Bull Run took place only 25 miles away from Washington, some families organized picnics so they could go there and watch! Edited August 21, 2017 by Fullerene 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 9 hours ago, EdgarusQPFC said: Only a small percentage of people owned slaves, the rich and wealthy, I wonder how many of them went off to fight that war? Quote The 1860 census shows that in the states that would soon secede from the Union, an average of more than 32 percent of white families owned slaves. Some states had far more slave owners (46 percent in South Carolina, 49 percent in Mississippi) while some had far less (20 percent in Arkansas). http://www.history.com/news/history-lists/5-myths-about-slavery 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fullerene Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 Just now, welshbairn said: http://www.history.com/news/history-lists/5-myths-about-slavery In the 1860 census - Kansas had two slaves. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fullerene Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 23 minutes ago, Bob Mahelp said: Absolutely true, but it pales when compared with Winchester, Va., which changed hands 72 times during the war....once 13 times in a single day. https://www.encyclopediavirginia.org/Winchester_During_the_Civil_War That must have been fun. Patsy Cline was also born in Winchester, so the city has had it's share of sorrow to bear. You mean this Patsy Cline. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 6 minutes ago, Fullerene said: In the 1860 census - Kansas had two slaves. Kansas were on the Union side and had voted to ban slavery. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheProgressiveLiberal Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 12 minutes ago, welshbairn said: http://www.history.com/news/history-lists/5-myths-about-slavery Of course. But the vast majority of slaves were owned by a handful of people. Lots of small farmers had a slave or two. It was the structure of the economy, but ending slavery wouldn't have changed their life one bit. It would have been a massive change for the large plantation owners. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheProgressiveLiberal Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 5 minutes ago, welshbairn said: Kansas were on the Union side and had voted to ban slavery. Best sports trash talk shirt I've seen was from the University of Kansas. Their main rival is the University of Missouri. It was Missouri slaveholders attempting to move into Kansas that created the Bleeding Kansas situation in the decade before the Civil War. KU is called the Jayhawks, after free soil militia during Bleeding Kansas. MU is called the Tigers after the name of their towns pro-Confederate militia. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 (edited) 19 minutes ago, TheProgressiveLiberal said: Of course. But the vast majority of slaves were owned by a handful of people. Lots of small farmers had a slave or two. It was the structure of the economy, but ending slavery wouldn't have changed their life one bit. It would have been a massive change for the large plantation owners. That doesn't make any sense. It's like saying raising business tax only affects large corporations as small firms don't pay very much in the first place. Slaves were wealth that kept producing value added. The top 1% still own most of the wealth, it was the same then. Edited August 21, 2017 by welshbairn 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheProgressiveLiberal Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 1 minute ago, welshbairn said: That doesn't make any sense. It's like saying raising business tax only affects large corporations as small firms don't pay very much in the first place. Wouldn't any massive regulatory change effect a large enterprise more than a small enterprise in the same line of business? I'm talking a change on the level of ending slavery. Wouldn't the small enterprise have much more flexibility? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topcat(The most tip top) Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 Good point. How come they didn't complain about scrounging slaves bringing down wages and join up with the North? About 100,000 southerners actually did 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savage Henry Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 1 hour ago, welshbairn said: Kansas were on the Union side and had voted to ban slavery. But they did record Dust in the Wind, so best call that one a draw. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bully Wee Villa Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 I thought that was Elton John? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 New headline photo on Trump's twitter page. Frightened rabbits staring at the headlights. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 55 minutes ago, welshbairn said: New headline photo on Trump's twitter page. Frightened rabbits staring at the headlights. Left to right: Gone by Tuesday Gone by September Gone as we speak ........ 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DA Baracus Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 1 hour ago, welshbairn said: New headline photo on Trump's twitter page. Frightened rabbits staring at the headlights. w**k, w**k, w**k, w**k, w**k, w**k, w**k, w**k, w**k, w**k, w**k, w**k, w**k, w**k. Not a good guy among them. Plus the average age there must be at least 152. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miguel Sanchez Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 Meanwhile, on Steve Bannon's website: http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/international/breitbart-lukas-podolski-picture-migrant-jet-ski-donald-trump-steve-bannon-a7903531.html Far-right website Breitbart have been forced to apologise after mistaking Lukas Podolski for a migrant travelling from Morocco to Spain. The article entitled "Spanish Police Crack Gang Moving Migrants on Jet-Skis" originally appeared on Sunday with a picture of the recently-retired German star on a jet-ski before it was swiftly changed. It is understood the picture, rather than being taken off the Spanish coast, was instead from the 2014 World Cup in Brazil when the German national team were enjoying a day off. An editor's note on the article read: "A previous version of this story included an image of Lukas Podolski on a jet ski. This image appeared as an illustration of a person on a jet ski. Breitbart London wishes to apologise to Mr. Podolski. "There is no evidence Mr. Podolski is either a migrant gang member, nor being human trafficked. We wish Mr. Podolski well in his recently announced international retirement." 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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