Old Firm Colts in L2

[Ira Gaines]

I think I'd continue to support my club if they voted against it and it still went through, purely because they did what was right despite being in the minority, but that'd be the only thing keeping me going back through the turnstiles for games. I don't think I could ever watch a Scottish game again that wasn't at Cappielow.

[Clyde01]

All 12 premier clubs are for the proposal
I think the clubs in the championship biggest concern would be how it effects the currant loan system most of them i think will be for it.
The tipping point will be league 1  
Most clubs in league 2 are against it,
So for me it's very tight,the fact it's only a pilot scheme may get it approved,then have another vote in 2 years time.

You are spouting unsubstantiated shite again with this.

Why would premier clubs back a proposal that has no benefits for them and clear benefits for the old firm?

Would premier clubs be happy with all their top youth prospects being snapped up by the old firm to play in their colt sides in league 2?

You state one major draw back for championship sides, zero benefits, yet conclude they are all in favour.

Most League one sides would realise they could easily end up in league two at some point so will be of a similar view to league two sides.

Only 2 clubs really are in favour of these utter dugshite proposals.

[Bridgeton Clyde Boy]

f**k colts and Old Firm.. that’s all I’m sayin

[Poet of the Macabre]

21 hours ago, Ivo den Bieman said:

Also, someone said earlier that 9/10 League Two chairmen were definitely against, with the tenth swithering (probably Berwick from their earlier public statement). Astonishingly, the Daily Ranger claim that 7 / 10 L2 chairmen were "in favour" appears to have been complete lies. Who would have believed such a reputable journal would have been gullible enough to print any old pish fed to them by McCart or whatever-he's-called from Rangers?

Or these clubs were quietly in favour before they realised their fans were vehemently against the plans and so quickly (and sensibly) changed their tune.

Dunfermline should definitely be in the confirmed good guys list since our chairman has now said on multiple occasions that the club is not in favour of the proposals.

[Doonhamer doon south]

14 hours ago, wastecoatwilly said:

All 12 premier clubs are for the proposal
I think the clubs in the championship biggest concern would be how it effects the currant loan system most of them i think will be for it.
The tipping point will be league 1  
Most clubs in league 2 are against it,
So for me it's very tight,the fact it's only a pilot scheme may get it approved,then have another vote in 2 years time.

Would you be able to provide a source to this claim please. I would like to know each division clubs thinking on this issue.

[JakeSAFC]

Would you be able to provide a source to this claim please. I would like to know each division clubs thinking on this issue.

Can he f**k.

[Bazil85]

17 hours ago, wastecoatwilly said:

Ok how many fans have st mirren got on their books?do st mirren send a letter to each one to get a yes or no answer?how do you gauge the %? Why would you not go to see your team if it has no effect on your team?

I think a common sense approach tells us fans don't want this. Every aspect of evidence shows the majority of fans don't want this. For a club that like you say would be unaffected to vote for such an unpopular approach would be downright madness. The reason I and many fans don't want it is it further strengthens Rangers and Celtic at the detriment of competition in the lower leagues and it completely divests sporting integrity.

I would not go to the games because it would be yet more pandering to the Glasgow lovers. St Mirren take roughly 4,300 to games and this season seen a big rise in season ticket holders. We also have roughly 1,300 paying members involved in the fan buyout. You may think people being against this that support teams like St Mirren is irrational but for something that has zero benefit for St Mirren football club, do you genuinely think they would risk losing fans over the proposal? 

If so why would St Mirren do it? 

[Bazil85]

17 hours ago, The Moonster said:

Even if my club vote against it and it goes through, I won't continue my support.  What's the point? A league system which bends over for the 2 biggest clubs and absolves competition in one of their senior leagues for those 2 clubs is not a league system I can support. I understand why people will still go if their club rejects it but it won't be for me.

Another incredibly thick post from wastecoatwilly above though. How do you gauge fan opinion  Fucking hell.

I'm trying to have as sensible a conversation with him as possible but it's difficult lol. If he genuinely thinks that opinion can't be gauged on the information we already have that's either madness or downright trolling. Common sense very clearly tells us there are a majority of fans outside the Glasgow lovers that don't want this. Can't see how he doesn't see that... 

[lanky_ffc]

7 hours ago, Doonhamer doon south said:

Would you be able to provide a source to this claim please. I would like to know each division clubs thinking on this issue.

Good luck with that. I asked exactly the same yesterday and he conveniently ignored it, yet replied to someone else minutes later

[Ira Gaines]

I'm stunned people still ask him questions expecting any sort of worthwhile response tbh.

[support the underdog]

Sad day if it goes through and the thin end of the wedge. Don't be bribed with a few quid- in the long term it will further undermine the smaller clubs yet further. Very anti-competitive move.

The Rangers and Celtic ruin Scottish football. Sure there is a bit of gold and TV interest but it is stale. No real competition and the best anyone can hope for is 3rd. Without them it would be way more competitive, and not just for my club-anyone of the top dozen or so sides would have a real chance.  Look at the Championship, decent crowds, and really good competition. Shame the EPL won't take them.

 

[wastecoatwilly]

For me these 2 videos give a good insight to how a player comes through at Celtic,
 Si Ferry Meets...Aiden McGeady Episode 1 - Celtic education, making ...
Si Ferry Meets...Aiden McGeady Episode 2 - Strachan, Lennon bust ...
It's not a good example for the national team but a good example of a players path way.

[wastecoatwilly]

2 hours ago, Bazil85 said:

The reason I and many fans don't want it is it further strengthens Rangers and Celtic at the detriment of competition in the lower leagues and it completely divests sporting integrity.

Celtic will always be at the top of Scottish football, if you look at Peterhead they could be the next Ross county  or Inverness how is that detriment to the game?
This proposal is about players making it in the game from 17 to 21 and trying to increase the number of young talent to play at a decent level.

[1320Lichtie]

Celtic will always be at the top of Scottish football, if you look at Peterhead they could be the next Ross county  or Inverness how is that detriment to the game?
This proposal is about players making it in the game from 17 to 21 and trying to increase the number of young talent to play at a decent level.

What the f**k are you actually saying here?

How is it possible to be so thick and have such a lack of understanding of the points that are being made?

Please remove yourself from this thread.

[The Moonster]

I would suggest everyone stops engaging him, he's clearly a fucking moron who can't grasp simple facts.

[Bazil85]

53 minutes ago, wastecoatwilly said:

For me these 2 videos give a good insight to how a player comes through at Celtic,
 Si Ferry Meets...Aiden McGeady Episode 1 - Celtic education, making ...
Si Ferry Meets...Aiden McGeady Episode 2 - Strachan, Lennon bust ...
It's not a good example for the national team but a good example of a players path way.

Auden McGeady snapped up at 15 from Queens Park is a perfect example of what will happen a lot more to smaller clubs if Colt teams come in. He’s also a great example of the ridiculous association modern day Celtic fans hold with R Ireland. I know plenty of Celtic fans that follow them over Scotland which is baffling. 

 

10 minutes ago, wastecoatwilly said:

Celtic will always be at the top of Scottish football, if you look at Peterhead they could be the next Ross county  or Inverness how is that detriment to the game?
This proposal is about players making it in the game from 17 to 21 and trying to increase the number of young talent to play at a decent level.

We should be looking at ways to develop better players for the Scottish National team. 19/20 year olds playing part time clubs that train twice a week will not produce that quality of player. 

Young talent to play at a decent level is not a good enough reason for me to sell out sporting integrity, turn L2 into a development league and give Rangers and Celtic even more of a platform to develop above other teams and snaffle yet more quality young talent. 

[craigkillie]

On 07/02/2018 at 20:56, Ivo den Bieman said:

Up to fans not to be complacent about what appears to be a win, for now. The battle over this is far from over and there are enough wallopers out there to make the opposition significant in size and reach. It's important for the people united in opposition to it on this thread not only to keep coming up with better arguments against but also to suggest alternatives; most seem to think bringing back the reserve league is a good idea.

It would be a start to find out how much it actually cost to run a reserve league. If the bigoted arsecheeks and others withdrew on the grounds of cost, what was that cost? If they are willing to chuck 300k. over two years at lower league chairmen, wouldn't that money be better spent offsetting the cost of bringing back the reserve leagues? If they are having to arrange bounce games to give fringe first teamers and age players proper game time, how much is that costing at present? Another season of the status quo for us uber-diddies in L2 doesn't mean it's all gone away; it's a season's grace to do better and more credible research than the back-of-a-fagpacket dimwittery from the Old Firm that's been faced down this time.

I'm also interested in the threat that's been mentioned on this thread "accept this or face imminent reconstruction". What does that mean, exactly, and if anyone can shed any light, then what are the implications? It's all a bit vague.

 

 

"Bring back the reserve league" is a hackneyed phrase used mainly by folk stuck in the 1980s who think that playing with a few senior pros in what is essentially a bounce game will lead to a huge improvement in the quality of players developed.  The current SPFL Development league is essentially a de facto reserve league - allows up to 5 overage players, and there are very few clubs who have a big enough squad to ever want more than that.  About a year ago they announced plans to rebrand this league, and change it to a minimum of 2 (or maybe 3) overage players to make it "more competitive".

 

[wastecoatwilly]

9 minutes ago, Bazil85 said:

Auden McGeady snapped up at 15 from Queens Park is a perfect example of what will happen a lot more to smaller clubs if Colt teams come in.

Celtic are at the top of the food chain in Scotland,any player in Scotland that shows a bit of promise Celtic will have a look at him.
Every club in Scotland has their place in that food chain,the more players we produce as a nation and try to keep them in this country the better the leagues become.

22 minutes ago, Bazil85 said:

We should be looking at ways to develop better players for the Scottish National team. 19/20 year olds playing part time clubs that train twice a week will not produce that quality of player. 

Colt team will not be training twice a week they're full-time players,some part-time clubs are very happy to remain as they are with no plans of ever becoming full-time.

[Bazil85]

15 minutes ago, wastecoatwilly said:

Celtic are at the top of the food chain in Scotland,any player in Scotland that shows a bit of promise Celtic will have a look at him.
Every club in Scotland has their place in that food chain,the more players we produce as a nation and try to keep them in this country the better the leagues become.

Colt team will not be training twice a week they're full-time players,some part-time clubs are very happy to remain as they are with no plans of ever becoming full-time.

I know Celtic are but you continually don't answer the question about why fans should further support Celtic and Rangers in pushing their agenda to the detriment of their league and their fans. It's a stonewall fact that majority of fans are against this so why should they do it? Why should they not be telling these clubs to use the vast resources they've got above other clubs and do their own youth development?

You also continually ignore the fact that teams will be voting for Celtic and Rangers to have EVEN MORE of an excuse to take a higher number of decent young players from other clubs. Turkeys voting for Christmas for a number of teams you've said would be in favour with zero evidence to back it up. 

My second point is not about the Colt teams training part time, it's about the quality of the players they'd be playing on a weekly basis. Coming up against police officers and bankers that happen to play part-time football in League 2 will not generate very many world class footballers don't you think? There is zero evidence Colts in L2 will develop better players than in the development or some sort of reserve league. People say 'Aye but Spain and Germany' it's not even close to a comparison. Barca B are playing week in week out against teams that would be top three/ four in Scotland easily. Belarus have Colt teams, that's probably a closer comparison 

[Bazil85]

41 minutes ago, craigkillie said:

 

"Bring back the reserve league" is a hackneyed phrase used mainly by folk stuck in the 1980s who think that playing with a few senior pros in what is essentially a bounce game will lead to a huge improvement in the quality of players developed.  The current SPFL Development league is essentially a de facto reserve league - allows up to 5 overage players, and there are very few clubs who have a big enough squad to ever want more than that.  About a year ago they announced plans to rebrand this league, and change it to a minimum of 2 (or maybe 3) overage players to make it "more competitive".

 

I agree with this, development league is just another name for reserve league. 'Bring back reserves' is a bit of a hollow statement tbh. 

Something does have to be done in this country, for me neither Colts or rebranding the youth league is the answer. If it was up to me we would re-introduce the three foreigner rule. Give clubs two years to inbed it then by start of 20/21 season all clubs must have a starting 11 made up of at least eight Scottish eligble players. Rule went in 1995 and we last qualified for a tournament in 1998. Might be coincidence but it equally could have played a part. 

Also before anyone says it, it's NOT against empolyment law (no employement law change since 1995 impacts this rule). It does not stop a club signing foreign nationals, they could sign as many as they want, it would simply be a rule about home grown players that exists in many countries and sports. The same rules are in place for international football to stop us filling the national squad with Brazilians.