Polling: 2017 General Election, Council Elections and Independence

[DrewDon]

Overall figures have been encouraging for a while now but still work to be done: 

 

[John Lambies Doos]

Overall figures have been encouraging for a while now but still work to be done: 
 

Huge work to be done, I wouldn't have much confidence unless polls are hitting 60% yes. Never underestimate the shitebaggery that exists in Scotland

[Ira Gaines]

Shitebaggery exists everywhere. Preying on people's fears is a very effective political move no matter where you are, depending on circumstances, and a referendum of this nature would open very obvious doors. So it's going to come down to how Yes combat it.

[Erih Shtrep]

5 minutes ago, Andre Drazen said:

Shitebaggery exists everywhere. Preying on people's fears is a very effective political move no matter where you are, depending on circumstances, and a referendum of this nature would open very obvious doors. So it's going to come down to how Yes combat it.

Absolutely top of the pile has to be:   'Boris Johnston wants to scrap Barnett.   It's only the threat of a 2nd referendum which is preventing this.   Regardless of the 2nd referendum result the Barnett formula is over'    

[SANTAN]

15 hours ago, Erih Shtrep said:

Absolutely top of the pile has to be:   'Boris Johnston wants to scrap Barnett.   It's only the threat of a 2nd referendum which is preventing this.   Regardless of the 2nd referendum result the Barnett formula is over'    

Snappy.

[BFTD]

19 hours ago, Erih Shtrep said:

Absolutely top of the pile has to be:   'Boris Johnston wants to scrap Barnett.   It's only the threat of a 2nd referendum which is preventing this.   Regardless of the 2nd referendum result the Barnett formula is over'    

The Tories in general have wanted to do that for some time, purely because it plays well to their base. Same as David Cameron using his first public address after the independence vote to say, "GIRFUY Jocks! We're taking away some of your voting rights in Westminster!" They won't do it until they feel there's a point of no return, however; that those nasty nationalists aren't going away.

The really odd thing is that there'd be IDS-style scenes from the Scottish Unionists, who not only seem to have peculiar view that Scotland is a subsidy junkie, but they'd like to see the supposed subsidy taken away. No wonder most of them are Tories.

[Highland Capital]

I see Andy Wightman is considering running as an independent. Wonder if he’ll get much traction.

[BFTD]

37 minutes ago, Highland Capital said:

I see Andy Wightman is considering running as an independent. Wonder if he’ll get much traction.

There surely can't be that many people thinking, "I really like the policies of the Greens, but wish someone would take seriously the terrible threat posed by transsexuals".

[Dunning1874]

10 hours ago, BFTD said:

There surely can't be that many people thinking, "I really like the policies of the Greens, but wish someone would take seriously the terrible threat posed by transsexuals".

You wouldn't think so, but there's almost certainly plenty of people who voted Green in 2016 who don't care about the issue either way. However the most likely consequence of a split in the Lothian list vote between Greens and Wightman as an independent is the Greens only getting one seat and Labour or the Tories taking the last list seat at the expense of them both.

[BFTD]

1 minute ago, Dunning1874 said:

You wouldn't think so, but there's almost certainly plenty of people who voted Green in 2016 who don't care about the issue either way. However the most likely consequence of a split in the Lothian list vote between Greens and Wightman as an independent is the Greens only getting one seat and Labour or the Tories taking the last list seat at the expense of them both.

Ah, the old "I'm taking you all down with me" tactic.

[Gordon EF]

11 hours ago, BFTD said:

There surely can't be that many people thinking, "I really like the policies of the Greens, but wish someone would take seriously the terrible threat posed by transsexuals".

No but I imagine a fair few people might not think too highly of a party willing to lose possibly it's most recognisable member who's actually proposing some reasonably radical left wing policies over an argument that got out of hand about what gender means. It makes them look childish.

[GordonS]

6 hours ago, Gordon EF said:

No but I imagine a fair few people might not think too highly of a party willing to lose possibly it's most recognisable member who's actually proposing some reasonably radical left wing policies over an argument that got out of hand about what gender means. It makes them look childish.

That isn't what happened.

Wightman attended a talk at Edinburgh Uni in 2019 by Julie Burchill, absolute Queen Terf, an event so controversial it caused the university's entire LGBT committee to resign in protest over the university hosting it. He was privately told off by the Greens for going. In December the Greens were whipped to vote against Johan Lamont's bizarre and blatantly political amendment to the Forensic Medical Services Bill which was intended to, but legally could not, prevent a trans woman from carrying out a forensic examination of a sexual assault victim where the victim had requested a woman. The Lib Dems also whipped the same way as the Greens on this. He disobeyed the whip and voted for the amendment, then resigned over it a few days later, citing the Burchill event as one of his reasons.

The Greens didn't want to lose him, many have given accounts of how they tried to persuade him to stay.

If he runs as an independent he might take enough votes to cost Lorna Slater a seat, but he won't get enough on his own to get elected. Unless he actively campaigns on "Second Vote Terf".

[Gordon EF]

8 minutes ago, GordonS said:

That isn't what happened.

Wightman attended a talk at Edinburgh Uni in 2019 by Julie Burchill, absolute Queen Terf, an event so controversial it caused the university's entire LGBT committee to resign in protest over the university hosting it. He was privately told off by the Greens for going. In December the Greens were whipped to vote against Johan Lamont's bizarre and blatantly political amendment to the Forensic Medical Services Bill which was intended to, but legally could not, prevent a trans woman from carrying out a forensic examination of a sexual assault victim where the victim had requested a woman. The Lib Dems also whipped the same way as the Greens on this. He disobeyed the whip and voted for the amendment, then resigned over it a few days later, citing the Burchill event as one of his reasons.

The Greens didn't want to lose him, many have given accounts of how they tried to persuade him to stay.

If he runs as an independent he might take enough votes to cost Lorna Slater a seat, but he won't get enough on his own to get elected. Unless he actively campaigns on "Second Vote Terf".

Whilst my characterisation was obviously much shorter and more flippant that yours, I think the fact that we all acknowledge Wightman might take enough votes to cost the Greens a seat means that a reasonable number of people might feel our characterisations, practically, amount to more or less the same thing,

[vikingTON]

There's no valid reason for the Greens or any other political party to be whipping on such an issue. That they're willing to take such a ridiculous, 17th century wars of religion level dogmatic stance and lose one of the only adults in that room undermines their credibility for serious government: either through a decisive share of parliamentary seats or even a Cabinet post in a formal coalition.

[GordonS]

1 hour ago, virginton said:

There's no valid reason for the Greens or any other political party to be whipping on such an issue. That they're willing to take such a ridiculous, 17th century wars of religion level dogmatic stance and lose one of the only adults in that room undermines their credibility for serious government: either through a decisive share of parliamentary seats or even a Cabinet post in a formal coalition.

 Aye, I'm sure you were really going to vote Green, but this is what put you off.

I suppose they'll have to learn to live without the virginton vote.

[vikingTON]

Well yes, as someone in the West Scotland region where the SNP are a shoo-in for the constituency vote but not great for the list, then having a credible Yes alternative would be ideal. Instead, I have the option of Ross fucking Greer and a party that believes that holding the correct stance over transgender bathroom access is The Fundamental Question of Our Time. 

Edited January 28, 2021 by vikingTON

[vikingTON]

It's at this point where the SSP's predictable implosion into 17 different Judean People's Fronts is sorely felt, as an alternative left-leaning, pro-independence party could win significant backing throughout the Central Belt if it wasn't fighting utterly ridiculous, Twitter culture wars that mean the square root of f**k all to working class areas.

[Gordon EF]

We don't all have to trot out our credentials as previously Green voters who now won't vote for them to make the argument that this really isn't doing any good for the party.

I don't think this is going to have an enormous impact on their vote share but I do think there'll be a significant number of people who see the party in a worse light and probably still vote for them anyway because either they're a 'true Green' or they're a pro-independence voter who recognises their second SNP vote may be wasted and there's no alternative.

Where it obviously could acutely hurt them is the Lothian list. If Wightman has enough of a personal support to cost them that second list MSP, it will have been an utterly stupid move to have lost him over a nonsense whip.

The Greens would lose absolutely nothing by saying Andy takes a different view to the party over this issue but we're a party that doesn't shy away from diversity of opinion. Instead they cut their nose off to spite their face.

[Highland Capital]

I see George Galloway's mob (now calling themselves 'All for Unity') have had their application rejected again due to improper paperwork.

[Ludo*1]

33 minutes ago, Highland Capital said:

I see George Galloway's mob (now calling themselves 'All for Unity') have had their application rejected again due to improper paperwork.

I for one, am shocked that George Galloway has wrangled himself out of a completely humilating pumping on a technicality and still use the situation to say he'd change things in Scotland.