New clubs in the East of Scotland

[Super Saddler]

15 minutes ago, Cumbo said:

My club Jeanfield are keen to join pyramid and had planned to apply for start of 2019/2020 season.

We are currently south of the line (just) but rumours that the line may be moving further south.

Ideally we would be in EOS as road links from Perth southbound are better than those going North.

Has anyone else heard this about the boundary line?

Why wait? Isn't the line more likely to go north

[cmontheloknow]

I'd have thought any rational change would be to make the HFL / LL split in line with the Junior regions otherwise it becomes exceptionally messy - team finishes bottom of HFL but is from say Carnoustie - where do they go down to? The regional spread cannot increase going down the pyramid which is what would happen if the curent East Region goes from Edinburgh(ish) to Brechin yet the HFL starts at Dundee and the LL / EoS stops at the Tay Bridge.

[Robert James]

5 minutes ago, cmontheloknow said:

I'd have thought any rational change would be to make the HFL / LL split in line with the Junior regions otherwise it becomes exceptionally messy - team finishes bottom of HFL but is from say Carnoustie - where do they go down to? The regional spread cannot increase going down the pyramid which is what would happen if the curent East Region goes from Edinburgh(ish) to Brechin yet the HFL starts at Dundee and the LL / EoS stops at the Tay Bridge.

I am sure that the PWG will look at this issue ahead of the 2019/20 season.

No panic required, as ALL interested parties (including junior and "senior" SPFL/non league clubs) will need to be consulted. Remember that the boundary is important to SPFL clubs like Montrose, Brechin, Dundee/Utd, Arbroath, if they find themselves relegated from Division 2.  However, it is unlikely IMO that the SPFL clubs will vote to change the SFA boundary, just because the SJFA wants it to. (NB Montrose Roselea chose to change to the North Region last season).

Conversely, I would recommend that the SJFA merges the North & Tayside/Perthshire areas (next year) to form one North/East Region, thereby bringing it in line with the SFA/HFL/SLL boundary. .

[Marten]

I can understand though why Dundee has been included in the HFL area. With the way the population is spread over Scotland, it's always a challenge to draw a good boundary. The bulk of people live in/near the central belt, which is all LL area. Including the 2 largest population centres outside the central belt, Aberdeen and Dundee, in the HFL area makes sense from that point of view. Even now, only roughly 25% of the population lives in the HFL area. If the boundary is redrawn at Brechin, it becomes less than 10% (and that still includes the islands that will realistically not get a HFL team in the foreseeable future).

[dwl123]

1 hour ago, Cumbo said:

My club Jeanfield are keen to join pyramid and had planned to apply for start of 2019/2020 season.

We are currently south of the line (just) but rumours that the line may be moving further south.

Ideally we would be in EOS as road links from Perth southbound are better than those going North.

Has anyone else heard this about the boundary line?

Its fake news. The boundary between lowland and highland leagues isnt changing.

[cmontheloknow]

27 minutes ago, Marten said:

I can understand though why Dundee has been included in the HFL area. With the way the population is spread over Scotland, it's always a challenge to draw a good boundary. The bulk of people live in/near the central belt, which is all LL area. Including the 2 largest population centres outside the central belt, Aberdeen and Dundee, in the HFL area makes sense from that point of view. Even now, only roughly 25% of the population lives in the HFL area. If the boundary is redrawn at Brechin, it becomes less than 10% (and that still includes the islands that will realistically not get a HFL team in the foreseeable future).

The junior boundaries are what should exist at tier 5. It's too hard to split the country in two. Fact is, the vast majority of the population live in a broad diagonal band sandwiched between lines drawn from Aberdeen to Dumbarton and Stranraer to Edinburgh.

Outwith that? The north coast towns, some scattered west ones, Dumfries and the borders towns.

[cmontheloknow]

Just now, dwl123 said:

Its fake news. The boundary between lowland and highland leagues isnt changing.

So when the pyramid develops, Highland region will get a flood of Perthshire and Angus teams into it? That'll be popular among the more rural types who think Aberdeen is not Highland enough!

[tombrown]

1 hour ago, Cumbo said:

My club Jeanfield are keen to join pyramid and had planned to apply for start of 2019/2020 season.

We are currently south of the line (just) but rumours that the line may be moving further south.

Ideally we would be in EOS as road links from Perth southbound are better than those going North.

Has anyone else heard this about the boundary line?

Not heard this.but your no further than hawick.eyemouth or coldstream. the boundary line if there is one should not come into it.

[Cumbo]

Why wait? Isn't the line more likely to go north

We are in middle of changing committees and similar to Dundonald looking to see what we need to do first

[kefc]

The SJFA is split at regional club level and going by the actions of the guys running the SJFA they don’t want part of the pyramid or Licencing. What the East clubs want or need isn’t what the West clubs want. The West Premier is a very strong league and can probably slot in at tier 6 in a WOS setup worst case in a few years IF a new WOS isn’t formed, in the East it’s cracked in half with the movement of clubs who see change to a senior club and part of the SFA as a progressive move. Decisions really need to be made for clubs in the East who do want to join the pyramid and the seniors at the highest possible tier.

I’d be inclined to think TJ and co as has been suggested in the past has more alliegance to the West setup so some of the East clubs putting their trust TJ have to consider is that going by previous actions change isnt to the likeing of the TJ and Co or your Talbots, Glenaftons etc who are happy as things stand. It could take years to sort and by the time it has been the pyramid will probably have a settled working feeder in the East to the LL at tiers 6 and 7 with a new WOS League formed. Some could be playing a fair bit of catch up as others progress.

Edited May 22, 2018 by kefc

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

You cant have the West SJFA join the pyramid and the East and North not, there has to be a clear split, SJFA stay as it is and those who want to join the seniors do it.

[kefc]

6 minutes ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said:

You cant have the West SJFA join the pyramid and the East and North not, there has to be a clear split, SJFA stay as it is and those who want to join the seniors do it.

I didn’t mean for it to come over like that, West have a clear path but some of the big clubs and TJ don’t want it.

What happens in the East is anyone’s guess, bolting in under the existing working feeder to the LL in the East, same in the North is the logical answer.

A Super Duper League might be another option but it was voted out by the clubs in Ayrshire, where does that slot in within the oyramid and under what rules/ stipulations. There’s loads of working out needing to be done which could take years. 

[ShrimpLok]

5 hours ago, Cumbo said:

My club Jeanfield are keen to join pyramid and had planned to apply for start of 2019/2020 season.

We are currently south of the line (just) but rumours that the line may be moving further south.

Ideally we would be in EOS as road links from Perth southbound are better than those going North.

Has anyone else heard this about the boundary line?

Not heard anything but you can see it might make sense to think about changing the boundary. At the moment it sort of works to divide Dundee and Fife but the line chosen isn’t really logical elsewhere in Scotland. 

There’s no teams currently but things like Oban being south of the line but Connel being north of the line. Bankfoot or Dunkeld being in a different league from Perth teams makes little sense too. 

Basically there are three alternative approaches you could take:

Local Authority based. Argyll & Bute, Stirling, Fife, Perth & Kinross in LL. Dundee, Angus in HL. Perth and Kinross could also be aligned with Highland League. Would leave Coupar Angus and Blairgowrie slightly isolated if P&K in LL. Would Tayport or St Andrews Utd prefer to be in with Dundee clubs as well?

Geographical feature based. South of River Earn or Tay or South Esk or North Esk. Effectively the Esk is what SJFA have now albeit with Brechin and Montrose able to choose either side. South of Tay might work but Scone Thistle might prefer to be in the same region as Perth clubs.

Just draw a line after speaking to relevant clubs. Straight line from An Scarsgoch to the Tay north of Newburgh would leave Perth clubs, Scone Thistle and Luncarty in one division, Blairgowrie and Coupar Angus in the other. Same as now for all existing clubs but avoids weird anomalies like an Invergowrie team being placed in LL or a Bankfoot team in HL. Could draw a new line to keep Tayport in HL area too if they prefer.

[Robert James]

50 minutes ago, ShrimpLok said:

Not heard anything but you can see it might make sense to think about changing the boundary. At the moment it sort of works to divide Dundee and Fife but the line chosen isn’t really logical elsewhere in Scotland. 

There’s no teams currently but things like Oban being south of the line but Connel being north of the line. Bankfoot or Dunkeld being in a different league from Perth teams makes little sense too. 

Basically there are three alternative approaches you could take:

Local Authority based. Argyll & Bute, Stirling, Fife, Perth & Kinross in LL. Dundee, Angus in HL. Perth and Kinross could also be aligned with Highland League. Would leave Coupar Angus and Blairgowrie slightly isolated if P&K in LL. Would Tayport or St Andrews Utd prefer to be in with Dundee clubs as well?

Geographical feature based. South of River Earn or Tay or South Esk or North Esk. Effectively the Esk is what SJFA have now albeit with Brechin and Montrose able to choose either side. South of Tay might work but Scone Thistle might prefer to be in the same region as Perth clubs.

Just draw a line after speaking to relevant clubs. Straight line from An Scarsgoch to the Tay north of Newburgh would leave Perth clubs, Scone Thistle and Luncarty in one division, Blairgowrie and Coupar Angus in the other. Same as now for all existing clubs but avoids weird anomalies like an Invergowrie team being placed in LL or a Bankfoot team in HL. Could draw a new line to keep Tayport in HL area too if they prefer.

This is one of many theoretical changes, but it would mean changing the SFA's Highland/Lowland pyramid boundary. Any changes would need to be agreed by the SPFL (given the potential relegation of Division 2 clubs), and by the HFL/SLL in conjunction with the EoSL & the SoSFL . This would not be agreed in the short term, and would need full consideration and consultation.

The more pressing issue is to try to sort out a West/South pyramid feeder league IMO.

[Rooster20]

With all these meetings for junior clubs have there been anymore late applications other then Dunbar and Craigroyston?

[ShrimpLok]

20 minutes ago, Robert James said:

This is one of many theoretical changes, but it would mean changing the SFA's Highland/Lowland pyramid boundary. Any changes would need to be agreed by the SPFL (given the potential relegation of Division 2 clubs), and by the HFL/SLL in conjunction with the EoSL & the SoSFL . This would not be agreed in the short term, and would need full consideration and consultation.

The more pressing issue is to try to sort out a West/South pyramid feeder league IMO.

Agreed but it’s sorting out the East West South boundary lines that might predicate change in the north. 

Annan is further East than all the West Lothian clubs plus half the Fife clubs up to Kelty and Lochgelly.

Forth is further West than all the Stirlingshire clubs and Dunipace are further East than Shotts, Carluke, Lesmahagow etc

So the new West and South areas can’t be based on lines of Latitude and Longitude but will have to be mainly based on Local Authority areas, especially now Dunipace have self sorted to the East. Even using LAs there will remain anomalies like  Kello Rovers so some flexibility may be needed to draw new boundaries.

Once you have defined East, West and South regions by Local Authority with a tweak for Kello it becomes logical to do the same for the HL / LL boundary as well.

[Burnie_man]

The East/West split should be along Junior lines, they have that part right. The EoS themselves state they cater for Lothians and Stirlingshire so that should be the western boundary. Just needs formalised.

[Eye Valley]

I see the Sun’s Junior FB page has screengrabbed you. @Burnie_man

[Burnie_man]

Fame! ????

[heedthebaa]

better than being in the Sunday Sport I suppose