FairWeatherFan Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 25 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said: That tends to be who objects any time the possibility of Dundee clubs entering the EoS gets raised on here and why. Will be interesting to see if there are any applications that put that scenario to the test this year. I think most people have Tayside northwards for the same reason the 90s Junior think tank had them in a North Superleague, and why the original 3 region plan had them Northwards, and why the HL/LL boundary was drawn as it was. What those exact reasons are i don't know, but certainly a common theme when people are structuring leagues on paper. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimi Shandrix Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 8 minutes ago, Pyramidic said: There cannot be a better time for the Dundee clubs (perhaps as a group with a key representative acting on their behalf liaising with the LL, EOSFL and SFA) to make a case for their inclusion within the Senior Pyramid. If unsuccessful then they need to quickly hammer out an arrangement with the HL and NRJFA. League boundaries are not fixed in England and fluctuate quite a bit from season to season. In a proper pyramid (rather than the linear towers that are we are creating) there should be no problem in Harthill and Fauldhouse being in a Tier 8 division with say Shotts Bon Accord and Forth Wanderers one season and then say moved across to be with Dunipace and Rosyth the next. A proper pyramid should see fluid movement of clubs in each tier that allows natural groupings and minimises travel for the majority. Groupings will vary according to the constituent clubs in each tier in a particular season. This is a sensible and constructive way forward but would need the SFA to oversee the process. Therein lies the problem in my opinion. The next couple of months should make for interesting viewing. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnieman Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 (edited) 34 minutes ago, Pyramidic said: There cannot be a better time for the Dundee clubs (perhaps as a group with a key representative acting on their behalf liaising with the LL, EOSFL and SFA) to make a case for their inclusion within the Senior Pyramid. If unsuccessful then they need to quickly hammer out an arrangement with the HL and NRJFA. League boundaries are not fixed in England and fluctuate quite a bit from season to season. In a proper pyramid (rather than the linear towers that are we are creating) there should be no problem in Harthill and Fauldhouse being in a Tier 8 division with say Shotts Bon Accord and Forth Wanderers one season and then say moved across to be with Dunipace and Rosyth the next. A proper pyramid should see fluid movement of clubs in each tier that allows natural groupings and minimises travel for the majority. Groupings will vary according to the constituent clubs in each tier in a particular season. This is a sensible and constructive way forward but would need the SFA to oversee the process. Therein lies the problem in my opinion. I wouldn't hold up England and the ridiculous moving of southern clubs into northern leagues as something to aspire to. Pyramids generally operate within defined regions, you don't jump across different regions at the same level when it suits. It's entirely reasonable for West Lothian to be an EoS region and operate as such, it's entirely reasonable that Lanarkshire is a WoS region. It's sensible, it's understood, and there is no operational reason why a club in West Lothain need to go west, or a Lanarkshire club needs to move into the east. It really does require the EoS/WoS/SoS to set their defined areas. The Tayside issue is another matter. They're really too small to be a stand alone 6th tier LL feeder (do we want another SoS?), and most rational people see it as a North/HL area. Edited February 3, 2021 by Burnieman 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GordonS Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 37 minutes ago, John S said: The home of Falkirk, The Falkirk Stadium is in Grangemouth I've never gone with that one tbh. I think most folk would say anything west of the M9 there is in Falkirk rather than Grangemouth. It's closer to the town centre of Falkirk than the town centre of Grangemouth, and the datazone it's in from official statistics is Falkirk Middlefield. Plus, everything in Falkirk Council is basically Falkirk anyway... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanCamelonfan Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 31 minutes ago, GordonS said: I've never gone with that one tbh. I think most folk would say anything west of the M9 there is in Falkirk rather than Grangemouth. It's closer to the town centre of Falkirk than the town centre of Grangemouth, and the datazone it's in from official statistics is Falkirk Middlefield. Plus, everything in Falkirk Council is basically Falkirk anyway... Agreed. The front entrance is on the laurieston road aswell 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John S Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 Just going with the old burgh boundaries and the sign is still at the Westfield roundabout. I've never gone with that one tbh. I think most folk would say anything west of the M9 there is in Falkirk rather than Grangemouth. It's closer to the town centre of Falkirk than the town centre of Grangemouth, and the datazone it's in from official statistics is Falkirk Middlefield. Plus, everything in Falkirk Council is basically Falkirk anyway... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GordonS Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 2 minutes ago, John S said: Just going with the old burgh boundaries and the sign is still at the Westfield roundabout. Ah true. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanCamelonfan Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 10 minutes ago, John S said: Just going with the old burgh boundaries and the sign is still at the Westfield roundabout. Is your address the street at the side if you or street that ur entrance sits on. People work on boundaries being straight lines. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John S Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 Good point. Don't know where the boundary for Falkirk is on the road where the entrance is. Is your address the street at the side if you or street that ur entrance sits on. People work on boundaries being straight lines. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy groundhopper Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 Come along kids, you're in the 'big boys' leagues now, so you should be able to endure a 2 hour drive to away matches - not enjoyable I agree, but it needs to be done. Yet again the dreaded boundary lines make an appearance, time to scrap them ? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergeant Wilson Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 47 minutes ago, Andy groundhopper said: Come along kids, you're in the 'big boys' leagues now, so you should be able to endure a 2 hour drive to away matches - not enjoyable I agree, but it needs to be done. Yet again the dreaded boundary lines make an appearance, time to scrap them ? What do you suggest instead? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockson Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 8 hours ago, FairWeatherFan said: Not sure on that one. Aren't they just named after something? Bit like how Third Lanark had nothing to do with Lanark. Bring on the New Jersey Giants and New Jersey Jets though in the NFL, and New Jersey Red Bulls in the MLS Third Lanarkshire Rifle Volunteers. So Lanarkshire. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanburn Dave Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 Plus, everything in Falkirk Council is basically Falkirk anyway.........apart from the Kingdom of Bo'ness obviously. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GordonS Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 8 minutes ago, Deanburn Dave said: ......apart from the Kingdom of Bo'ness obviously. Splitters. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdr71 Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 58 minutes ago, Sergeant Wilson said: What do you suggest instead? 1 hour ago, Sergeant Wilson said: What do you suggest instead? Allow the structure to evolve the way league structures have traditionally evolved, by letting the clubs concerned work it out for themselves. Most football clubs choose their leagues based on rational criteria, and the exceptions do not remain irrational for ever. If joining the WoS works out for the West Lothian clubs, then the league will be strengthened; if it doesn't, eventually more sensible heads will prevail over time and the clubs will drift back east, having done no real harm other than to themselves. Alternatively, the WoS is free to simply reject their applications. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnieman Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 13 minutes ago, sdr71 said: Allow the structure to evolve the way league structures have traditionally evolved, by letting the clubs concerned work it out for themselves. Most football clubs choose their leagues based on rational criteria, and the exceptions do not remain irrational for ever. If joining the WoS works out for the West Lothian clubs, then the league will be strengthened; if it doesn't, eventually more sensible heads will prevail over time and the clubs will drift back east, having done no real harm other than to themselves. Alternatively, the WoS is free to simply reject their applications. or alternatively let sense prevail from the very beginning rather than subject West Lothian and Lanarkshire to a free-for-all. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parsforlife Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 17 minutes ago, sdr71 said: . Most football clubs choose their leagues based on rational criteria, and the exceptions do not remain irrational for ever. . Aye maybe not forever but 100 years isn’t uncommon. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongTimeLurker Posted February 4, 2021 Share Posted February 4, 2021 12 hours ago, Burnieman said: or alternatively let sense prevail from the very beginning rather than subject West Lothian and Lanarkshire to a free-for-all. If sense had prevailed from the very beginning there would never have been a senior vs junior grade split in the first place, Tweedmouth and Berwick Rangers would be playing in English leagues given they are from south of the Tweed never mind Berwick, and nobody would have suggested using an exact line of latitude to define the boundary for Club 42 relegation to the HL and LL catchments based on registered ground location. Suspect only Harthill really have a shot at this, but stranger things have happened given all the quirky decisions made in this sort of context previously. A lot may depend on how SJFA-orientated the first set of WoS officeholders turn out to be, if that's getting sorted out soon. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanCamelonfan Posted February 4, 2021 Share Posted February 4, 2021 20 hours ago, John S said: Good point. Don't know where the boundary for Falkirk is on the road where the entrance is. Well the front of that is the road to laurieston. I live in middlefield but doesnt have that in my address it's just falkirk and I think bog is the same 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongTimeLurker Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 (edited) You can find a detailed map of what falls under Grangemouth community council on the Falkirk council website: https://www.falkirk.gov.uk/maps-local/council-democracy/community-councils.aspx?prop=community_&val=Grangemouth (incl Skinflats) The stadium is definitely in Grangemouth according to that. The boundary runs up the middle of the road being discussed on its way past the stadium. Edited February 5, 2021 by LongTimeLurker 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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