New clubs in the East of Scotland

[FairWeatherFan]

2 minutes ago, stulch said:

Can't some existing clubs from the EoS, former juniors, go and talk to the North Juniors about the benefits of the pyramid? With the facts not myths. I know most consider the North Juniors on par with amateurs but not a lot needs to change for a lot of them. May be a commitment to have no changes to criteria to get things moving. Allow them to play on public parks if they want to?

I'd love to be a fly on the wall to the North pyramid discussions just to know what the issues are. Maybe they could get advice from the EoS for setting up a Highland feeder?
 

When the PWG split into Highland and Lowland subsections the Highland & North Juniors had a meeting in November 2018 with the North Juniors saying they weren't interested at the time.

Around a year ago now the acting president of the North Region had said they had some meetings since then but nothing had been decided.

When it gained some news last year with the Highland League quite positive about where they were. The North Region dampened people's expectations once more.

https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp/sport/football/2142565/talk-of-north-junior-football-clubs-being-ready-for-highland-league-promotion-plan-premature/

Quote

Any talk of the north juniors being ready to form a “tier six” below the Highland League is premature.

Highland League secretary Rod Houston had said on Thursday that proposals were in place from the start of next season, which would introduce relegation to its league and promotion from the North Caledonian League and North Region Superleague.

However Richard Easton, secretary of the North Region Junior FA, said only informal talks had taken place, before the current lockdown was imposed, and no concrete proposal is in the pipeline.

He said: “We have had very early discussions but there’s nothing in place for us at the moment. We just wanted to see what the plan was if any of our clubs wanted to progress through the pyramid.

“If some time in the future they want to take the step up, improve their facilities or maybe feel they’ve outgrown junior football, it gives them the platform to do so.

“But there’s not too many clubs in that situation just now if an agreement was to be put in place. That is a long way away.”

There may well be an appetite there at some clubs within the north junior structure, longer term, to look at progression up the leagues.

Easton added: “I think for some clubs there is, given the circumstance are right. That would be down to the individual clubs. You’ve got some clubs that are more ambitious and some clubs that are quite happy playing junior football. It’s on a case-by-case basis.

“The criteria is strict and there would be very few clubs that would meet that currently.”

For something that has been seen the easiest piece of the pyramid to slot in, the North Region have managed to continually back off from it.

[stulch]

Do we know if the East Juniors, North of the line, have been kept up to date in any brief way? Forfar West End don't seem to be that encouraged but that might be because of their fellow North of line Easterners? Montrose to Forfar, isn't that far though?...

[stulch]

Yeah, that was why I was encouraged again from the reply above as I previously thought things were where you just said. You think you're getting somewhere and then there seems to be a dampener, again like you said.

[FairWeatherFan]

15 minutes ago, stulch said:

Yeah, that was why I was encouraged again from the reply above as I previously thought things were where you just said. You think you're getting somewhere and then there seems to be a dampener, again like you said.

The said thing in all of this is that a year ago there were a bunch of West Region clubs that got their finger out and pursued the creation of a league that would allow them to enter the pyramid. They then got it done in the space of a few months.

Between the North and the Tayside Juniors there doesn't seem to have been enough clubs positive about the pyramid to even attempt that so far. They're just focusing on doing their own thing. Which for the most part is nothing by the looks of things.

[Pyramidic]

14 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

The said thing in all of this is that a year ago there were a bunch of West Region clubs that got their finger out and pursued the creation of a league that would allow them to enter the pyramid. They then got it done in the space of a few months.

Agreed. The other key factor is that there were helpful and experienced administrators with the LL / EOSFL that helped facilitate the process. 

If the same people help the Tayside clubs there would be every hope of a satisfactory and successful outcome. Probably a “big ask”.

Edited March 16, 2021 by Pyramidic

[Marten]

12 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

The said thing in all of this is that a year ago there were a bunch of West Region clubs that got their finger out and pursued the creation of a league that would allow them to enter the pyramid. They then got it done in the space of a few months.

Between the North and the Tayside Juniors there doesn't seem to have been enough clubs positive about the pyramid to even attempt that so far. They're just focusing on doing their own thing. Which for the most part is nothing by the looks of things.

It's not true that nothing is happening in the north and Tayside, talks are ongoing.

[FairWeatherFan]

Just now, Marten said:

It's not true that nothing is happening in the north and Tayside, talks are ongoing.

So what do you call the North Region being in talks for over a year plus at this point?

As for Tayside you've just had one of the most Northernly clubs bolt to the EoSFL saying there's no prospect of an alternative.

That's a whole lot of nothing to me. Right up there with the PWG discussions that lead to nothing.

[Dev]

1 minute ago, Marten said:

It's not true that nothing is happening in the north and Tayside, talks are ongoing.

Perhaps it is just that Forfar West End aren't in the loop? 

It would make sense for one or more East Juniors (NoTayBr) to try applications to the EoS to see what happens before really pushing on with an alternative which would be some type of feeder to the HL.

[Marten]

3 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

So what do you call the North Region being in talks for over a year plus at this point?

As for Tayside you've just had one of the most Northernly clubs bolt to the EoSFL saying there's no prospect of an alternative.

That's a whole lot of nothing to me. Right up there with the PWG discussions that lead to nothing.

I know talks are ongoing, I can't say at this point in which direction these are heading and it's fair enough that clubs are spreading their bets, but plenty of people here are positive that a solution is going to be found.

[GordonS]

9 minutes ago, Marten said:

I know talks are ongoing, I can't say at this point in which direction these are heading and it's fair enough that clubs are spreading their bets, but plenty of people here are positive that a solution is going to be found.

My hope is that Forfar WE know about the talks and that their EoS application is an attempt to hold feet to the fire and get it done this season. 

[Marten]

4 minutes ago, GordonS said:

My hope is that Forfar WE know about the talks and that their EoS application is an attempt to hold feet to the fire and get it done this season. 

That's possible. And let's be honest, if that's the case, they wouldn't put publicly on social media what's happening up here as it will be used for internal pressure.

Edited March 16, 2021 by Marten

[LongTimeLurker]

...or maybe Forfar WE are simply the Dundee/Angus version of Kelty, Dalkeith Thistle or Kilwinning Rangers who finally stopped listening to the self-serving narratives of SJFA blazers and raised their head above the parapet to announce they were applying to join the pyramid?  The "Midland League" has as much chance of joining the LL portion of the pyramid as an extra tier 6 feeder as the east region did, i.e. basically none despite Ian Maxwell's last gasp efforts with Option Z. Continuing to follow a prominent junior grade blazer from Lochee who provided very bad advise to clubs on pyramid matters in an east region context over the past three years is not the rational move right now.

Edited March 16, 2021 by LongTimeLurker

[AsimButtHitsASix]

Bonnyton Thistle were shunted sideways into the highest tier of the WoSFL as they were already in the pyramid. Forfar WE might be aware that the Tayside clubs will eventually move over, one way or another, but not next season and want to be in the pyramid when that eventually happens to ensure they're guaranteed the top tier of any "midland" or "tayside" league. 

Edited March 16, 2021 by AsimButtHitsASix

[LongTimeLurker]

Doubt it. EoS entry right now for FWE probably means being in tier 8 conferences assuming they can achieve a ppg outcome after Nicola finally relents on moving back to tiers. A Midlands League would be aiming for tier 6 entry and would probably be a single division. So there's no SoS style shortcut to tier 6 status available by doing this. They are accepting a lower entry point because they know it's the only viable way in right now after Luncarty did it last year.

Edited March 16, 2021 by LongTimeLurker

[Pyramidic]

I find it rather difficult to comment on the Tayside issue at the moment given that the situation appears quite fluid. To be honest all I want to see is the issue resolved and Tayside clubs playing Senior football in the Pyramid. This can be as a Tayside Senior League, a combined North of Scotland / Grampian League or absorption into the EOSFL.

Where I do feel strongly is that if we are to continue to use the existing HL / LL Tay boundary, Scone Thistle and Tayport are south of that boundary, and these two affected clubs must compete in the EOSFL. There should be no exception in my view. It would not be fair on the West Lothian clubs who want to play in the WOSFL.

I also feel that the NRJFA clubs have been dragging their heals on Pyramid alignment - a matter that should have already been ratified and delivered. Perhaps it would concentrate minds if the Tayside clubs start initiating the formation of a joint Senior League.

Revolution and change is in the air. Really interesting to see the emerging changes and whether the delivery of a workable solution is achieved.

Edited March 16, 2021 by Pyramidic

[Junior Pub League]

Has any idiot tried to tie the ludicrous decision by Forfar WE to attempt to join the EOS to the creation of a "Midland league" ?

[Stag Nation]

3 hours ago, LongTimeLurker said:

SFA are also involved and could it have even got to a vote at the LL AGM last year if the SFA and HL were not OK with a change?

Even if you're right, that's two parties out of four in favour. Where did you get "most".

[Stag Nation]

2 hours ago, VillanoXIV said:

Surely the answer to the Tayside question is have a EOS members vote to see whether they are happy to accept them?

If they then either get promoted to the EOS Premier and/or get licenced, consult with the LL and HL and say “In the unlikely event [team x] are promoted, they would prefer to play in your league, are you happy with this arrangement?” If they’re not, they can choose to either with the least preferred option or not take promotion at all, 

I don’t see any issues in having them in EOS regional conferences where they are likely to remain and in the event they do go on some mad Leicester-style run to the EOS title, there is more than enough time for them to declare an interest prior to actually lifting the trophy and the pyramid shouldn’t be a rigid draconian joonyurs setup where rulings done a decade ago are set in stone and have to be obeyed just because.

And if the EoS don't go for regional conferences?

[FairWeatherFan]

2 hours ago, VillanoXIV said:

Idon’t see any issues in having them in EOS regional conferences where they are likely to remain and in the event they do go on some mad Leicester-style run to the EOS title

If you're talking about just Forfar WE they were capable of getting to the East Region Superleague when it still had Kelty, Bonnyrigg & Bo'ness in it. They wouldn't be stuck in regional conferences/division for long. 

Which is true for a good number of Tayside teams that would rise through region wide leagues. 

Unless there are more Letham's out there, any North Division will end up a Tayside/Fife division once again. 

[Dev]

1 hour ago, Pyramidic said:

I find it rather difficult to comment on the Tayside issue at the moment given that the situation appears quite fluid. To be honest all I want to see is the issue resolved and Tayside clubs playing Senior football in the Pyramid. This can be as a Tayside Senior League, a combined North of Scotland / Grampian League or absorption into the EOSFL.

Where I do feel strongly is that if we are to continue to use the existing HL / LL Tay boundary, Scone Thistle and Tayport are south of that boundary, and these two affected clubs must compete in the EOSFL. There should be no exception in my view. It would not be fair on the West Lothian clubs who want to play in the WOSFL.

I also feel that the NRJFA clubs have been dragging their heals on Pyramid alignment - a matter that should have already been ratified and delivered. Perhaps it would concentrate minds if the Tayside clubs start initiating the formation of a joint Senior League.

Revolution and change is in the air. Really interesting to see the emerging changes and whether the delivery of a workable solution is achieved.

Ironically, if the North Juniors are beaten to it for a place at Tier 6 in the Highland zone by the NCal and the North of Tay Bridge Eastern Juniors these latter two leagues may become the recognised and only TWO northern feeder leagues to Tier 5.

The North Juniors could end up becoming a feeder at Tier 7 & 8 with promotion to either of the Tier 6 NCal or Tayside leagues. The best North teams maybe being taken into these leagues at Tier 6 from the start if they made the right approaches. These leagues could then kick off with two divisions each so having better matched groups teams at each level.

It's just a thought but the situation could turn competitive as soon as one of the North or North Tayside leagues gets its' act together?