Oor Nicola Sturgeon thread.

[Detournement]

2 hours ago, Salt n Vinegar said:

The thing that's "utterly pathetic" is blaming a government - any government of any party - for rises in covid cases as a result not of government policy 

Given that they escaped culpability for sending Covid into care homes and played up the low level of Covid last summer I think it's good enough for them if the Scottish Government take some flak for this. 

[BigDoddyKane]

 

1 hour ago, Detournement said:

Given that they escaped culpability for sending Covid into care homes and played up the low level of Covid last summer I think it's good enough for them if the Scottish Government take some flak for this. 

 

That has to be revisited once this is over

[Thumper]

4 hours ago, Salt n Vinegar said:

The thing that's "utterly pathetic" is blaming a government - any government of any party - for rises in covid cases as a result not of government policy but of peoples' inability or unwillingness to follow the advice or even the law specifically aimed at reducing the spread.

Public health is one of the oldest and most essential of government functions, and there is a human element to the spread of absolutely any disease. For Scotland's figures to even be in the same ball park as England's when England is trying really hard to fucking kill everybody is absolutely damning of the Scottish Government, and in the fantasy alternative universe where Anas Sarwar was FM right now absolutely nobody would be defending him.

[vikingTON]

4 hours ago, Salt n Vinegar said:

The thing that's "utterly pathetic" is blaming a government - any government of any party - for rises in covid cases as a result not of government policy but of peoples' inability or unwillingness to follow the advice or even the law specifically aimed at reducing the spread.  If the government cocks up, fine, fire away, but don't blame them when 15-20 folk risk a serious situation by gathering indoors for 8-10 hours with bevvy.  

I don't seem to recall the SG refusing to take credit when Scotland's case rates were lower than other parts of the UK before, so this just smacks of special pleading.

The same behaviour takes place in other parts of the UK as well, it hasn't led to a ridiculously high number of cases.

Quote

In my experience of discussions like these, the ones who girn the loudest about lockdowns or "the government" are the ones who have been acting like idiots and helping the virus spread.  We do 2 lateral flow tests a week and an additional one beforehand if we know we are likely to meet someone e.g. for a drink or a cuppa. 

The lateral flow tests that the US has concluded are completely useless and that people are not qualified to complete competently anyway without supervision?

'A complete and utter waste of time' sums up that regime. 

Quote

I accept that some folk don't give a toss about the health of others, but it pisses me off when they blame "the government" for the results of their own lack of personal responsibility.

Yes, I'm sure that you were equally cut up about it when Johnson was taking the flak and 'Nicola' was basking in her zero-Covid limelight twelve months ago. 

Edited July 6, 2021 by vikingTON

[Salt n Vinegar]

1 hour ago, Detournement said:

Given that they escaped culpability for sending Covid into care homes and played up the low level of Covid last summer I think it's good enough for them if the Scottish Government take some flak for this. 

Try reading again. My second line ought to be pretty clear to anybody.  I made it clear I was criticising those who blamed government when it WASN'T the governments fault. If the government says "don't do x, y, and z" but people do these things anyway, the fault lies with the folk doing x, y and z, not with the government. 

The care home situation was hellish, and I'm pretty certain the government will be lambasted for it in the public inquiry.  However I can also remember the TV news scenes from Italian hospitals in the early days so no wonder they wanted the hospitals cleared.  To bring up the care home situation at the beginning of the pandemic to in some way excuse or give cover to folk acting like idiots a year later is pretty lame. I'm pretty sure that the return of patients to care homes wasn't the sole cause of the infection rates there. Never mind issues with visitors; with staff turnover and agency staff, they were hardly covid secure. I had to go through a more rigorous process to visit a pub two weeks ago than your average agency staff member or delivery driver to a care home had to go through in the early days. 

Too many of the supporters of the club I support were idiots when the title was won.  Too many Tartan Army folk were idiots in London. Too many folk now are behaving like idiots, like my friends at the weekend.  Hell mend them if the virus kicks off again and especially if they are infected with it. Anyone would think they had never heard of the existence of variants. 

To be specific, why exactly is the government to "take some flak" for higher infection rates now?  What have they said or done to encourage the spread? Rather, I think that most of the fault lies with folk like my stupid friends who invited 20-odd folk to their place. The government has asked folk to do 2 LFTs a week. We do.  Negative result for both of us again today.  If folk aren't doing the tests, some of them WILL be spreading the virus without realising it. They are part of the problem.

[Salt n Vinegar]

5 minutes ago, virginton said:

I don't seem to recall the SG refusing to take credit when Scotland's case rates were lower than other parts of the UK before, so this just smacks of special pleading.

The same behaviour takes place in other parts of the UK as well, it hasn't led to a ridiculously high number of cases.

The lateral flow tests that the US has concluded are completely useless and that people are not qualified to complete competently anyway without supervision?

'A complete and utter waste of time' sums up that regime. 

Yes, I'm sure that you were equally cut up about it when Johnson was taking the flak and 'Nicola' was basking in her zero-Covid limelight twelve months ago. 

Aye, very good.

The friend of ours who was double-vaccinated didn't find out he was covid positive by magic. He took a LFT and it gave a positive result. He then arranged a PCR test which confirmed it. He is now isolating. Would you rather he didn't bother with the LFT and went to the pub every night? 

[Thumper]

3 minutes ago, Salt n Vinegar said:

To be specific, why exactly is the government to "take some flak" for higher infection rates now?  What have they said or done to encourage the spread?

The point is what they haven't done, which is stop it. As much as yes, Rangers supporters _are_ a uniquely horrible breed of human being, it cannot be the case that Scotland's numbers are so high due because of individual bad apples. Walk-in vaccination rates are appalling. It is the responsibility of the government to fix that, much like it would be the responsibility of the government to ensure casualty rates were kept as low as possible for any other disaster.

[BlueBear]

The world was warned on Jan 28 by WHO that the pandemic was on the way and for governments to prepare. 

It was for Westminster to take the lead and they did nothing. 

This was a matter of national security far less public health. 

The UK government is responsible for border control, the biggest defence against the virus and what did we do? That's right, left them open. 

Then there was the PPE issues, ventilators and so on, far less that the NHS across the UK pre Covid was already under resourced and in crises. 

Care home deployment was at Westminster behest (but of course the front line Docs signed off on it) and stupidly Nicola followed suit. Its one thing to laugh at a court jester, but to follow him is suicide, as we all found out. 

Our Covid response was a train wreck, but Nicola did have the benefit of hindsight in being three weeks behind England on the spread and on the whole used it well. 

Meanwhile all we heard and seen from Blojo the court jester, was contradictions, innuendo and downright lies. 

The one thing we got right was being in early on the vaccines and dread to think the statistics of we hadn't, considering we already had one of the worst statistics on the planet. 

Much to be learned for sure, but learning is what we on the West are poor at, being  the arrogant self entitled  bunch that we are. 

Sovereign debt pretty much at unsustainable levels and we have yet to see or experience the consequences of that and it won't be pretty. 

 

[vikingTON]

11 minutes ago, Salt n Vinegar said:

The friend of ours who was double-vaccinated didn't find out he was covid positive by magic. He took a LFT and it gave a positive result. He then arranged a PCR test which confirmed it. He is now isolating. Would you rather he didn't bother with the LFT and went to the pub every night? 

I don't care what he does, because taking the UK government's chosen LFT is as useful as tossing a coin or spinning a roulette wheel and deciding on that basis whether to arrange a PCR test or not. Your argument rests on a point of coincidence, whereas the FDA have looked at all the evidence and have confirmed that they're fit only for the bin. 

Your negative tests provide insufficient predictive value to inform your activities either way (hence the FDA's judgment that the tests are useless), so if you were in fact so concerned about preventing infection then you'd be keeping your own household in permanent lockdown regardless.

Edited July 6, 2021 by vikingTON

[Thumper]

2 minutes ago, BlueBear said:

Sovereign debt pretty much at unsustainable levels and we have yet to see or experience the consequences of that and it won't be pretty.

lol

Who is the debt to?

[BlueBear]

2 minutes ago, Thumper said:

lol

Who is the debt to?

[Salt n Vinegar]

Just now, Thumper said:

The point is what they haven't done, which is stop it. As much as yes, Rangers supporters _are_ a uniquely horrible breed of human being, it cannot be the case that Scotland's numbers are so high due because of individual bad apples. Walk-in vaccination rates are appalling. It is the responsibility of the government to fix that, much like it would be the responsibility of the government to ensure casualty rates were kept as low as possible for any other disaster.

It's the responsibility of the Government if folk don't go for vaccines despite months of encouragement? What do you suggest? Round folk up and frog march them to the vaccination centres?  That include the anti-vaxxer eejits too? I mentioned on another forum that I thought the Government should consider compulsory vaccination (medically required exemptions only) and folk did their nut. Folk are looking to blame the government - half the time they'd be better looking in the mirror at their own failings and stupidity. 

[BlueBear]

7 minutes ago, virginton said:

I don't care what he does, because taking the UK government's chosen LFT is as useful as tossing a coin or spinning a roulette wheel and deciding on that basis whether to arrange a PCR test or not. Your argument rests on a point of coincidence, whereas the FDA have looked at all the evidence and have confirmed that they're fit only for the bin. 

Your negative tests provide insufficient predictive value to inform your activities either way (hence the FDA's judgment that the tests are useless), so if you were in fact so concerned about preventing infection then you'd be keeping your own household in permanent lockdown regardless.

The impartial FDA. Right OK. 

[Thumper]

4 minutes ago, Salt n Vinegar said:

It's the responsibility of the Government if folk don't go for vaccines despite months of encouragement? What do you suggest? Round folk up and frog march them to the vaccination centres?  That include the anti-vaxxer eejits too? I mentioned on another forum that I thought the Government should consider compulsory vaccination (medically required exemptions only) and folk did their nut. Folk are looking to blame the government - half the time they'd be better looking in the mirror at their own failings and stupidity. 

I am not in charge of public health. The Scottish Government is. But just to be clear here, if this is all a matter of personal responsibility then you think that Boris Johnson is perfectly okay to drop absolutely all restrictions in two weeks' time, because it's up to individuals to behave themselves and not spread the disease?

[Salt n Vinegar]

6 minutes ago, virginton said:

I don't care what he does, because taking the UK government's chosen LFT is as useful as tossing a coin or spinning a roulette wheel and deciding on that basis whether to arrange a PCR test or not. Your argument rests on a point of coincidence, whereas the FDA have looked at all the evidence and have confirmed that they're fit only for the bin. 

Your negative tests provide insufficient predictive value to inform your activities either way (hence the FDA's judgment that the tests are useless), so if you were in fact so concerned about preventing infection then you'd be keeping your own household in permanent lockdown regardless.

Balls.  From UK gov website.. . "Lateral flow tests deliver a rapid result, in 30 minutes. They can find positive cases with high levels of virus that are easy to transmit to others, helping to intercept and reduce further infections.

Lateral flow tests used by the UK government go through a rigorous evaluation by the country’s leading scientists. This means they are accurate, reliable and successfully identify those with COVID-19 who don’t show symptoms and could spread the virus without realising.

Lateral flow tests are not being offered in isolation, but alongside a range of other measures to drive down cases and break chains of transmission."

As far as I know nobody has suggested that lfts are foolproof but like everything else they form part of the arsenal.  What's pretty certain is that knowing my pal's lifestyle as I do, if he hadn't done the test, he would have been in his local/s at least 3 times since the day he took the first test.  I'm glad he's been isolating and any rational being ought to agree. (Other, irrational, opinions will be available.)

As for us, yes, we are careful.  If everyone had been as strict as us about flowing the guidance/law, I suspect that the infection rates would be very much lower than they are. Politicians should answer for what they say and do.  The lack of adequate UK border controls and the ridiculous "eat out to help out" scheme, as examples, have cost us dearly, in both health and economics. 

Also, if the lfts are as bad as you say, it's going to be a total shit show after the Wimbledon crowds go home as one of the entry requirements is a negative lft result within the previous 48 hours, and there is scarcely an empty seat or a mask to be seen.

[Salt n Vinegar]

19 minutes ago, Thumper said:

I am not in charge of public health. The Scottish Government is. But just to be clear here, if this is all a matter of personal responsibility then you think that Boris Johnson is perfectly okay to drop absolutely all restrictions in two weeks' time, because it's up to individuals to behave themselves and not spread the disease?

No. BoJo is being a knob. He knows that folk 'want' the lockdown to end, and he is, IMO, taking the brakes off too soon for 'popularity' reasons. If the Scottish Government does that as well I'll criticise them too. My perception is that the Scottish Government is a bit more cautious, but I suppose we'll see. 

If the Government says lift all the restrictions, and the people act accordingly, it's the Government's fault if it all goes tits up. If the government says keep the lockdown restrictions and follow the guidance/law, and some folk don't, and it goes tits up, it's those folks' fault. 

I would say it's not hard to understand, but given the arrogance and stupidity of folk that I thought I knew quite well, including the party organisers and attendees, maybe it's harder to understand basic health issues than I thought. 

[Elric]

2 hours ago, BigDoddyKane said:

 

 

That has to be revisited once this is over

Guaranteed to be swept under the carpet by Little Miss Innocent

[Granny Danger]

13 minutes ago, Elric said:

Guaranteed to be swept under the carpet by Little Miss Innocent

Yeah if only we’d had an election recently where this could have been raised and judgement passed.

 

 

 

Oh. Wait….

[Elric]

1 minute ago, Granny Danger said:

Yeah if only we’d had an election recently where this could have been raised and judgement passed.

 

 

 

Oh. Wait….

Just like the delayed until after the election missed cancer tests.  Sweep Sweep

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/snp-ministers-kept-dangerous-cancer-scr Sweep Sweepeening-blunder-quiet-for-months-5scqj37vb

[DeeTillEhDeh]

Just like the delayed until after the election missed cancer tests.  Sweep Sweep
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/snp-ministers-kept-dangerous-cancer-scr Sweep Sweepeening-blunder-quiet-for-months-5scqj37vb

There's a fairly obvious reason why there was a delay - they had to trace those women who had potentially been affected - going all the way back to 1997.

Given that earlier records will not be electronic it's not surprising this has taken time.

There is no evidence of a cover-up - this article is based on bullshit from the Unionist parties - one of which had responsibility for the issue at some point - Labour when they controlled the Scottish Government from 1999 to 2007 and as the UK government prior to 1999.

NHS Scotland are now going back before 1997 - this is something that could have happened under any political party. To see shitebags like you trying to make political capital out of the deaths of women really shows what a despicable c**t you are.