Oor Nicola Sturgeon thread.

[Theyellowbox]

22 minutes ago, The_Kincardine said:

As I said, "If you want (GB) partitioned it's up to you to justify it.".  No idea why you struggle with this.

I did justify it. But to summarise: politically, culturally and socially we are heading in different directions. The centralised governing is no longer appropriate and factors that affect rUK increasingly do not impact Scotland to the same extent. We can share ties, but I think politically Scotland needs that bit more than devolution has given. For example, migration to Scotland helps with the declining population, but is unwelcome in rUK. Old ground, but the Brexit vote is another indicator of different social and political views. Look.at the public reactions to covid restrictions.

You could argue the same for the regions of England, but they are not my concern.

Do I have family, historical and cultural links to rUK? Yes. Does that mean in an Independent Scotland that suddenly disappears? Of course not.

If the best argument for a union is all historical than its not going to fly. If the argument is over how would an independent Scotland work and what it is about the union that is better for the future, then there is a debate to be had.

If I was pro union, then I'd be concerned that the quality of those making the argument now is hugely diminished from 2014.

Also, I think it is misguided and petty to assume pro independence is somehow anti English. I'm pro independence, but support England in the ashes, cheer team GB and want England to beat all other teams in 6 nations other than Scotland. 

Edited November 30, 2021 by Theyellowbox

[The_Kincardine]

9 minutes ago, Theyellowbox said:

I did justify it. But to summarise: politically, culturally and socially we are heading in different directions.

We're not.  If you draw a line from the Tweed to the Solway and say north of the line is 'culturally and socially' different to south of the line then you are havering.

[Soapy FFC]

33 minutes ago, The_Kincardine said:

I just downloaded and scanned the 2011 census and there isn't a 'Scottish only' option.  Why do you have to lie?

A quick look at the 2011 census data on the govt website gives this. Which is 62.4%

 

[Baxter Parp]

30 minutes ago, The_Kincardine said:

You didn't.  You provided me a link to an interpretation of the census.  The phrase "Scottish only" isn't an option in the document itself.

If you tick only Scottish then you are "Scottish only".  I do hope this helps.

[The_Kincardine]

3 minutes ago, Soapy FFC said:

A quick look at the 2011 census data on the govt website gives this. Which is 62.4%

 

There is no 'Scottish only' box to tick.

[Theyellowbox]

9 minutes ago, The_Kincardine said:

We're not.  If you draw a line from the Tweed to the Solway and say north of the line is 'culturally and socially' different to south of the line then you are havering.

Yip. I'd argue those in the North of England are probably more in line with Scotland than London and would benefit from the policies of Scotland.

However, a border is a border. I mean imagine if there was other countries in the world that shared a land border where close neighbours have different policies or (and don't fall off your seat) even different currencies!!!! How can any of these countries ever function with borders! 

Edited December 1, 2021 by Theyellowbox

[Soapy FFC]

1 minute ago, The_Kincardine said:

There is no 'Scottish only' box to tick.

See reply above from @Baxter Parp

[The_Kincardine]

Just now, Theyellowbox said:

Yip. I'd argue those in the North of England are probably more in line with Scotland than England and would benefit from the policies of Scotland.

Thanks.  So a simple line, after 314 years of sharing nationhood, is complete nonsense.

[The_Kincardine]

Just now, Soapy FFC said:

See reply above from @Baxter Parp

I saw it.  There is no 'Scottish only' box to tick.

[Soapy FFC]

Just now, The_Kincardine said:

I saw it.  There is no 'Scottish only' box to tick.

Tick all that apply. Therefore only ticking Scottish means Scottish only. You can't assume that if someone only ticks Scottish they really mean 'and British', when British is also a given option.

[lichtgilphead]

39 minutes ago, The_Kincardine said:

You didn't.  You provided me a link to an interpretation of the census.  The phrase "Scottish only" isn't an option in the document itself.

Obviously tonght must be semantics night.

Arguing that the phrase "Scottish only" doesn't appear, when the form clearly states "Tick ALL that apply", and people have conciously chosen to tick only the "Scottish" box (and no others) is beyond pathetic

Edited December 1, 2021 by lichtgilphead

[The_Kincardine]

Just now, Soapy FFC said:

Tick all that apply. Therefore only ticking Scottish means Scottish only. You can't assume that if someone only ticks Scottish they really mean 'and British', when British is also a given option.

Again, as I said, this is down to interpretation.  I'd have ticked the 'Scottish' box.  This doesn't mean I'm not British because, of course, we all are.

[The_Kincardine]

1 minute ago, lichtgilphead said:

Obviously tonght must be semantics night.

Arguing that the phrase "Scottish only" doesn't appear, 

The phrase 'Scottish only' doesn't appear.  This isn't semantics.

[Soapy FFC]

Just now, The_Kincardine said:

Again, as I said, this is down to interpretation.  I'd have ticked the 'Scottish' box.  This doesn't mean I'm not British because, of course, we all are.

Legally if you are Scottish you are also British. BUT the census is asking how people feel about their nationality, not what it is legally.

[Baxter Parp]

5 minutes ago, The_Kincardine said:

I saw it.  There is no 'Scottish only' box to tick.

Exactly how stupid do you want everybody to think you are, Kincy?

[The_Kincardine]

1 minute ago, Soapy FFC said:

Legally if you are Scottish you are also British. BUT the census is asking how people feel about their nationality, not what it is legally.

Yeah and I 'feel' Scottish - of course.

I know that ScotchNats are struggling for traction but to use a woolly question about feelings from 2011 to justify partition really is the apotheosis of straw-clutching.

[lichtgilphead]

2 minutes ago, The_Kincardine said:

The phrase 'Scottish only' doesn't appear.  This isn't semantics.

Please refrain from only posting part of my replies, thus removing context.

What do you consider to be the differece between "only ticking the Scottish box " and "Scottish only"?

 

 

[Soapy FFC]

1 minute ago, The_Kincardine said:

Yeah and I 'feel' Scottish - of course.

I know that ScotchNats are struggling for traction but to use a woolly question about feelings from 2011 to justify partition really is the apotheosis of straw-clutching.

Tick all that applies is not woolly. I have never seen a tick all that applies list that has next to all the options the clarification of " If you only tick this box, it means you have only ticked this box, and not any other box".

[The_Kincardine]

5 minutes ago, lichtgilphead said:

Please refrain from only posting part of my replies, thus removing context.

What do you consider to be the differece between "only ticking the Scottish box " and "Scottish only"?

If I was asked to tick the 'what do you feel' box I'd tick 'Scottish' - of course.  If asked 'do you feel Scottish only' I'd tick 'no'.

So the interpretation of the census was answering a question that wasn't asked.  This really isn't tricky.

But I know support for partition is slowly sliding off a cliff so I can see why you daft wee gonks are trying to cling on to any hope possible.

[The_Kincardine]

7 minutes ago, Soapy FFC said:

Tick all that applies is not woolly. 

Tick all that you feel is about as woolly as woolly can be outside of Pringle's jumper factory.