Oor Nicola Sturgeon thread.

[Todd_is_God]

7 minutes ago, Granny Danger said:

No there’s no onus on you, but if you refute my point without offering an alternative it makes your position vacuous.

The lack of an alternative is not a reason to simply vote SNP till the end of time, though.

[Benjamin_Nevis]

8 minutes ago, Todd_is_God said:

The lack of an alternative is not a reason to simply vote SNP till the end of time, though.

SNP/Greens are currently the only vehicle for Independence and will likely be so for the foreseeable future. If another election is required in order to get a mandate for another referendum, there's quite literally no other way to vote in order to even have a chance at getting a referendum. Any prospect of Labour's stance softening is an absolute non-starter. However much you clearly dislike the SNP, you'd have to be mental to be supporting the bigots and weirdos that constitute most of Alba. 

[Todd_is_God]

55 minutes ago, Day of the Lords said:

SNP/Greens are currently the only vehicle for Independence and will likely be so for the foreseeable future. If another election is required in order to get a mandate for another referendum, there's quite literally no other way to vote in order to even have a chance at getting a referendum. Any prospect of Labour's stance softening is an absolute non-starter. However much you clearly dislike the SNP, you'd have to be mental to be supporting the bigots and weirdos that constitute most of Alba. 

I don't plan on voting at all tbh. They're all utterly useless and I wouldn't currently trust any party to organise a piss up in a brewery. I won't be voting against the SNP/Greens, but I won't be voting for them either.

[sophia]

25 minutes ago, Todd_is_God said:

I don't plan on voting at all tbh. They're all utterly useless and I wouldn't currently trust any party to organise a piss up in a brewery. I won't be voting against the SNP/Greens, but I won't be voting for them either.

Well done you.

1979 and how your opponent will regard your inaction is relevant.

This shouldn't be beyond you.

It isn't is it?

[Todd_is_God]

9 minutes ago, sophia said:

Well done you.

1979 and how your opponent will regard your inaction is relevant.

This shouldn't be beyond you.

It isn't is it?

Unless I've missed something, unlike 1979 there is currently no referendum planned for me to vote in, so this post is complete rubbish.

It really isn't a good look for the SNP and/or it's most loyal voters to go down that route btw.

[sophia]

6 minutes ago, Todd_is_God said:

Unless I've missed something, unlike 1979 there is currently no referendum planned for me to vote in, so this post is complete rubbish.

It really isn't a good look for the SNP and/or it's most loyal voters to go down that route btw.

I didn't mention a future referendum so I don't quite know to what you are referring and in contrast to what you might think is a coup de grâce, I rather think you've been impetuous.

My advice you you is that you should dial back on the aggression, it doesn't set you in a good light.

[Todd_is_God]

2 minutes ago, sophia said:

I didn't mention a future referendum so I don't quite know to what you are referring and in contrast to what you might think is a coup de grâce, I rather think you've been impetuous.

My advice you you is that you should dial back on the aggression, it doesn't set you in a good light.

What was your reference to 1979 about?

[Granny Danger]

There are people who don’t want Independence.  That’s fine, I don’t have a problem with that though I disagree with them.

However, people who claim to want Independence whilst deliberately refusing to act in a way that can bring it closer are simply talking shite.

[sophia]

2 minutes ago, Todd_is_God said:

What was your reference to 1979 about?

The propensity for actors associated with the British state to gerrymander and then seize upon any dubiety for their own ends.

1979 was my most immediate example of such and at the other end of the scale is the Liberals claiming that a single council by election victory is a harbinger of unbridled success for their cause.

Edgy commentators like to over think for reasons that sometimes include look-at-me ego stuff.

Me, I'm just happy to lend my consistent vote to help us.

 

 

[Todd_is_God]

2 minutes ago, sophia said:

The propensity for actors associated with the British state to gerrymander and then seize upon any dubiety for their own ends.

1979 was my most immediate example of such and at the other end of the scale is the Liberals claiming that a single council by election victory is a harbinger of unbridled success for their cause.

Edgy commentators like to over think for reasons that sometimes include look-at-me ego stuff.

Me, I'm just happy to lend my consistent vote to help us.

It's quite a coincidence then that you used an example of a referendum that required a specific percentage of the electorate to vote yes in response to me not planning to vote for anyone, however I've no reason (or desire) to argue about your intentions so I'm happy to accept that is what you meant.

[sophia]

1 minute ago, Todd_is_God said:

It's quite a coincidence then that you used an example of a referendum that required a specific percentage of the electorate to vote yes in response to me not planning to vote for anyone, however I've no reason (or desire) to argue about your intentions so I'm happy to accept that is what you meant.

It's not really a coincidence at all.

There is a proposal, which we are all aware of, with respect to the next UK general election.

This proposal requires a specific percentage and there is a simple strategy that is required for every voter who is in favour of a return to our natural position to employ.

 

[Guest Jedi]

Todd gets it.

'Who else' can possibly deliver Independence apart from the SNP?....how about the actual people of Scotland themselves? 

The reason why the 2014 campaign came so far, wasn't the SNP, it was the variety of grassroots activists, who did the heavy lifting in working class communities across the country....Women for Independence, RIC, Trade Unions for Independence, Labour!! for Independence etc...some 300 community organisations were formed on the Yes side. These were the people who often packed out town halls, manned the stalls, went on the marches.......not 'just' the SNP leadership.

The sad part is, that, rather than try to re-engage these people, and once again inspire working class voters, the SNP leadership wants the campaign to be all about them, and their vision of it.

With the community groups, and voices from the left though, its still difficult to see that % reaching over the magic 50 mark.

Also, opinion polling for Independence could reach 55-60% over a consistent period 'without' the SNP, and put more pressure on Westminster to either grant a Ref or negotiate.

Edited November 6, 2022 by Jedi

[Todd_is_God]

11 minutes ago, sophia said:

It's not really a coincidence at all.

There is a proposal, which we are all aware of, with respect to the next UK general election.

This proposal requires a specific percentage and there is a simple strategy that is required for every voter who is in favour of a return to our natural position to employ.

So you were talking about a future referendum afterall...

I do not like the SNP. I'm not going to vote for them just because they say a GE is a referendum*. It's a cop out from them, tbh, as it will hold no weight in WM whatsoever, and will do nothing to bring independence any closer. But it will allow them to say they acted upon the umpteen mandates they have already done nothing with and keep the carrot dangling.

The idea that the SNP will suddenly be able to successfully "hold talks about leaving the UK" based on the results of a UK GE when they currently cannot get anywhere with talks to hold a referendum is incredible tbh.

*Unless, of course, it is explicity agreed by all parties beforehand that this is the case.

Edited November 6, 2022 by Todd_is_God

[sophia]

9 minutes ago, Todd_is_God said:

So you were talking about a future referendum afterall...

I do not like the SNP. I'm not going to vote for them just because they say a GE is a referendum*. It's a cop out from them, tbh, as it will hold no weight in WM whatsoever, and will do nothing to bring independence any closer. But it will allow them to say they acted upon the umpteen mandates they have already done nothing with and keep the carrot dangling.

The idea that the SNP will suddenly be able to successfully "hold talks about leaving the UK" based on the results of a UK GE when they currently cannot get anywhere with talks to hold a referendum is incredible tbh.

*Unless, of course, it is explicity agreed by all parties beforehand that this is the case.

Aye ok, you were correct all along.

When you want independence, not voting for pro independence parties is a great strategy.

 

[Guest Jedi]

11 minutes ago, Todd_is_God said:

So you were talking about a future referendum afterall...

I do not like the SNP. I'm not going to vote for them just because they say a GE is a referendum*. It's a cop out from them, tbh, as it will hold no weight in WM whatsoever, and will do nothing to bring independence any closer. But it will allow them to say they acted upon the umpteen mandates they have already done nothing with and keep the carrot dangling.

The idea that the SNP will suddenly be able to successfully "hold talks about leaving the UK" based on the results of a UK GE when they currently cannot get anywhere with talks to hold a referendum is incredible tbh.

*Unless, of course, it is explicity agreed by all parties beforehand that this is the case.

Absolutely spot on. Its all coming down to the Supreme Court decision as things stand. If they say Yes, all well and good, a Ref happens next year. If they say No...As you say, a GE is not a de facto Ref, and you would never get the other parties to accept it as one beforehand.

However, again, 'if' polling in favour of Independence consistently hot 55-60% over a fair period of time, whoever was in power at WM would be under pressure to move on it....for me only a more grassroots push will bring that figure up from the current 44-47% to what is required, rather than the SNP's current plans. 

[spongeheid15]

Wonder how the nurses feel hearing that the nippy wee b*****d has donated 5 million pounds of tax payers money to third world countries like ours. 

[Melanius Mullarkey]

2 minutes ago, spongeheid15 said:

Wonder how the nurses feel hearing that the nippy wee b*****d has donated 5 million pounds of tax payers money to third world countries like ours. 

So much squeezed in to one sentence Spongy. 

Fair play, m8. 

[Billy Jean King]

Wonder how the nurses feel hearing that the nippy wee b*****d has donated 5 million pounds of tax payers money to third world countries like ours. 

[emoji28][emoji28][emoji28][emoji28][emoji28][emoji28][emoji28][emoji28][emoji28]

[KingRocketman II]

57 minutes ago, spongeheid15 said:

Wonder how the nurses feel hearing that the nippy wee b*****d has donated 5 million pounds of tax payers money to third world countries like ours. 

Implied racism, self-hatred/lack of self awareness, as well as unhinged abuse aligned most likely with climate denying views. BINGO.

The voice and meme creator on behalf of many "no" voters - "he says what we are all thinking" 

[Melanius Mullarkey]