Oor Nicola Sturgeon thread.

[DeeTillEhDeh]

1 minute ago, gordon9736 said:

Everyone seems to be saying Angus Robertson, but remember he was the one who lost his seat to Douglas Ross and had to go to a safe seat ( I assume) to get re-elected. 

More to do with the seat being a  Brexit supporting rural community.

[Double Jack D]

9 minutes ago, DeeTillEhDeh said:

That can only happen if the post Is not filled within 28 days.

I'm not sure the specific mechanisms but if the SNP don't promote a replacement FM and vote down all opposition candidates then we would require an election. Not sure of timescales but pretty sure there is time to allow this to happen prior to the October 2023 commitment for indyref2.

[gordon9736]

1 minute ago, DeeTillEhDeh said:

More to do with the seat being a  Brexit supporting rural community.

Maybe, but he held it again in the following election.

[Double Jack D]

3 minutes ago, DeeTillEhDeh said:

More to do with the seat being a  Brexit supporting rural community.

Which has since hopefully had a bit of a rethink given the impact of Brexit on the fishing and agricultural industries.

[DeeTillEhDeh]

7 minutes ago, Antlion said:

It has only to pursue independence and change minds. Gender recognition is not allowed in wee pretendy regions, as the separatist UK Nats in Westminster have made clear.

Literally the only thing the SNP should be doing is pushing the independence narrative, as there’s no such thing as a UK union, or devolution. Anything “devolved” can and will be slapped down by an autocratic UK government, no matter how many actual people in Scotland it hurts.

Sturgeon was far too “nice” in playing the UK game, which was always going to end in failure. Because the UK simply makes up the rules as it goes along.

Essentially, to progress independence, we need a charismatic figure who is unafraid to expose the UK for what it is, and to play as dirty as the leaders (and collaborators) of Brexit Britain.

Black it is then.

[topcat(The most tip top)]

3 minutes ago, gordon9736 said:

Everyone seems to be saying Angus Robertson, but remember he was the one who lost his seat to Douglas Ross and had to go to a safe seat ( I assume) to get re-elected. 

He's now my MSP here in Edinburgh Central

He replaced Ruth Davidson so that at least partly makes up for being replaced by Ross

 

[Aufc]

NS has clearly been a superb leader and has generally had the best intentions for Scotland. However, in the last year or so, she has went the complete opposite and has been making some bizarre decisions. Not a huge surprise considering the abuse she gets. Can't see anyone being able to step up to be honest. I think this is a huge issue with almost all politicians. Most of them have no real experience in business so how can they possibly make decisions to help them

[KirkieRR]

1 hour ago, RiG said:

The biggest losers today are the weirdo Union Jackers using phrases like "Wee Nippy" and "Krankie". So, much like any other day then.

Not just wee Tory thickos. I though boring beardie Guardian cartoonist Steve Bell's caricature of Sturgeon was right in that court, too.

[Donathan]

8 minutes ago, Antlion said:

It has only to pursue independence and change minds. Gender recognition is not allowed in wee pretendy regions, as the separatist UK Nats in Westminster have made clear.

Literally the only thing the SNP should be doing is pushing the independence narrative, as there’s no such thing as a UK union, or devolution. Anything “devolved” can and will be slapped down by an autocratic UK government, no matter how many actual people in Scotland it hurts.

Sturgeon was far too “nice” in playing the UK game, which was always going to end in failure. Because the UK simply makes up the rules as it goes along.

Essentially, to progress independence, we need a charismatic figure who is unafraid to expose the UK for what it is, and to play as dirty as the leaders (and collaborators) of Brexit Britain.

The GRA is probably going to get filed in the bin or at least heavily watered down IMO.

 

There was a poll the other day that asked 1,000 respondents whether (A) They agree with the contents of the GRA and (B) They think the UK government are right to block it.

 

 

When the results were split by independence voting intention, No voters overwhelmingly oppose the content of the bill and agree with the UK government blocking it, somewhat unsurprisingly.

 

The Yes voters were more interesting. Their support for the bill was close to 50-50, but most don’t agree with the UK government blocking it. The latter result is unsurprising given these people are independence supporters and thus want Holyrood to have full control over the law in Scotland, but the former is quite notable. Only half of yes voters actually agree with the GRA reform itself.

 

Scrapping it or heavily watering it down would be a pretty easy way for the new leader to score political points. 

[flyingscot]

2 hours ago, Dons_1988 said:

Sturgeon is one of the best out there in terms of battering away questions. 

But then I’ve always thought it’s not rocket science, she’s just prepared surely? Anticipate questions and be ready for them. 

The number of politicians who lack this basic skill always astounds me. 

I actually think a number of the politicians are prepared for the stock questions, but lack the nous to think on their feet and adjust quickly without looking like a rabbit in the headlights or making errors when off script. Sturgeon could do that with ease. 

[scottsdad]

The dreadful think is how the media will tackle the leadership campaign:

Candidate gives long speech on independence, the economy, environment, social justice etc.

Media asks endless gender recognition questions. 

[Dunning1874]

22 minutes ago, Elixir said:

Serious question: how do the SNP hope to progress both gender recognition and independence, and succeed at both? Particularly if, rightly or wrongly, a majority of the population did not enjoy what they just tried to sell them, and it then subsequently puts them off the party and its main cause - as opinion polls have since suggested. Unless the attitude of people changes, I am inclined to believe that both cannot be mutually progressed at this time.

The idea that a significant proportion of prospective SNP/Yes voters are going to switch to other parties or No as a result of disagreements over the GRA is a fantasy on the level of Alba winning 20+ seats in Holyrood.

[carpetmonster]

4 minutes ago, KirkieRR said:

Not just wee Tory thickos. I though boring beardie Guardian cartoonist Steve Bell's caricature of Sturgeon was right in that court, too.

I think Labour for the vastly most part can  be included in the ‘weirdo Union Jackers’ compartment. See Kieth’s ‘no deal with the SNP’ proclamations and this arsehole’s fashion sense
 

 

 

Edited February 15, 2023 by carpetmonster
Managed to also post in pic of newborn. Although his fashion sense isn’t very good either

[SandyCromarty]

Had a look at the ultra right wing Daily Mail online and of course they are reporting on a "tearful"  Sturgeon and referring to the £600,000 etc etc

As one of us representing a Scottish based party she was never going to get a "well done" from any of the media which is 99% tory owned, in her role as FM she was a lot smarter than the privately educated Prime Ministers than the fascist tories produced.

[O'Kelly Isley III]

6 minutes ago, virginton said:

Sturgeon was a highly effective politician, but like all politicians has a limited shelf-life. She missed the ideal opportunity to leave after the acute phase of the pandemic but has done well to go now before it goes down the pan. 

There's a lot of doomcasting about a replacement, but the reality is that a new leadership won't automatically be choosing from the narrower and narrower group of ministers in favour with the old FM. You would have had to be a political anorak of the highest order to identify the SNP's new leader at Westminster twelve months ago.

A leadership change is far better done mid-term with the opportunity to draw a line under the mistakes and to freshen things up. 

I agree entirely with that last paragraph, and although the seeming fixation with Robertson and Forbes as Sturgeon's replacement is entirely predictable it may well be that other candidates emerge - Ash Regan for example may be interested and would represent an opportunity to move the SNP and the Independence cause on a different trajectory.  Just a suggestion....

And it's not all gloom.  Sturgeon was a brilliant but divisive leader and her departure at a stroke removes a lightning rod for unionist hatred.  It also removes the whataboutery of the Tories and Labour in Scotland as the leadership vacuum in the SNP will see the immediate political focus shift from Holyrood to Westminster.

A new leader perceived to be competent and unburdened by personal affiliation and previous political commitments can oversee a regrouping and re-energising of the SNP in both houses.

[Genuine Hibs Fan]

2 minutes ago, Dunning1874 said:

The idea that a significant proportion of prospective SNP/Yes voters are going to switch to other parties or No as a result of disagreements over the GRA is a fantasy on the level of Alba winning 20+ seats in Holyrood.

While that's true you can't dismiss that it has had an effect on people's perception of the SG. In one respect that's just unfortunate as they simply decided to pursue something which pretty much every party agreed/placed in their manifesto as a small, almost token inoffensive gesture towards inclusion for a tiny minority of people treated shittily by the existing system; before trans people's existence became the disgraceful moral panic it has become in the last couple of years. On the other hand they fannyed around for far too long with consultations and attempts to pander to the worst people in the country, then decided they were pushing it through when we are at probably peak opposition, apparently without having a clear line when the inevitable "this lunatic monster in the jail says they're now trans, what do you say to that Nicola?" shite that donkey brained people care about. I have sympathy for the position they ended up in and some respect for the decision to go ahead (eventually) but politically they've made the policy look bad and weakened their own support and party unity, imo as a bit of an unforced error

[SandyCromarty]

7 minutes ago, Aufc said:

NS has clearly been a superb leader and has generally had the best intentions for Scotland. However, in the last year or so, she has went the complete opposite and has been making some bizarre decisions. Not a huge surprise considering the abuse she gets. Can't see anyone being able to step up to be honest. I think this is a huge issue with almost all politicians. Most of them have no real experience in business so how can they possibly make decisions to help them

Absolutely no argument with your first sentence but I have concern over your statement that she made bizarre decisions which indicate you think she alone made governmental policy, as FM she was part of the voting process like any other MSP, when bills were adopted she then, again as FM, was the person the mediia turned to for comment, any comments she made were representative of her party's policy.

As for her replacement it is more than likely that Angus will step into the role as he is popular with the membership, other attributes is that he is fluent in German thanks to his German mother, plus he did an excellent Politics and International Relations degree at Aberdeen Uni, on gaining Independence these would be helpful in our effort to regain EU membership.

[KirkieRR]

14 minutes ago, carpetmonster said:

I think Labour for the vastly most part can  be included in the ‘weirdo Union Jackers’ compartment. See Kieth’s ‘no deal with the SNP’ proclamations and this arsehole’s fashion sense
 

 

 

Yes, that's a fair point. And going back to the Guardian, Sturgeon should have been a figure they lionised - a woman from a working class background and a comprehensive school making it in male-dominated politics despite a universally negative press. But any praise they gave her was grudging, owing to their Union Jackism disguised as middle-class socialism suspicious of NASHNALISM.

[orfc]

19 minutes ago, Aufc said:

NS has clearly been a superb leader and has generally had the best intentions for Scotland. However, in the last year or so, she has went the complete opposite and has been making some bizarre decisions. Not a huge surprise considering the abuse she gets. Can't see anyone being able to step up to be honest. I think this is a huge issue with almost all politicians. Most of them have no real experience in business so how can they possibly make decisions to help them

How's she clearly been a superb leader???

A long term leader, yes

But 9 years with the Tory bonfire of a Westminster government and support for independence hasn't moved on at all? That's shocking. That's her legacy.

 

[carpetmonster]

3 minutes ago, KirkieRR said:

Yes, that's a fair point. And going back to the Guardian, Sturgeon should have been a figure they lionised - a woman from a working class background and a comprehensive school making it in male-dominated politics despite a universally negative press. But any praise they gave her was grudging, owing to their Union Jackism disguised as middle-class socialism suspicious of NASHNALISM.

The Guardian’s a shithouse of a paper in general, but Severin Carell as their Scotland editor is like making Post Malone the Minister for sensible haircuts; he clearly has no interest. John Harris and Arwa Mahdawi are usually worth reading but that’s about as far as it gets.