The European football level St. Mirren FC 2024/25 thread

[glenburn bud]

25 minutes ago, Coventry Saint said:

You can file me under 'starting to get slightly worried now', too.

 

Have a look on black & white army where you can see all the usual suspects preparing for a full scale meltdown. 

[djchapsticks]

1 minute ago, glenburn bud said:

Have a look on black & white army where you can see all the usual suspects preparing for a full scale meltdown. 

Funny reading. 

Ill admit though, I do want a couple of signings of quality to settle any of the usual St. Mirren fan doubts that creep into my mind. 

[NorthBank]

5 minutes ago, The Moonster said:

Of that 10 out you would've paid off their contracts, so it's not exactly paying "hee-haw". I don't for one second think the money spent in January is enough to hamper your budget this year considering you've sold a couple of players for good money but as much as "St Mirren spent a barrel load of money in January" is wide of the mark, so is "St Mirren spent hee-haw in January".

OK let's go through the list.

Scott Gallagher (keeper) left to go to Hibs. O'Brien came in on loan from Man City. No contract paid off.

Calum Gallagher left to go to Dumbarton. Josh Todd came in from Dumbarton. Maybe a little compensation but I do not know for sure.

Hardie left to return to Rangers. Loy came in. No contract paid off.

Shankland left to join Morton. Cammy Smith came in from Aberdeen on loan (but was with DUFC). No contract paid off.

Naismith was sold to RC (fee not disclosed but assumed to be 30/40k). Eckersley signed as he had no club in the USA and wanted to return. No contract paid off - money in!

Walsh return to Rangers. Storrie comes in on loan. No contract paid off.

Jordan Stewart goes on loan to Annan. Pal Fyelde signed from Norwegian Second Division (was in UK looking for a club), No contract paid off.

Kalvin Orsi left on loan to Queens Park. Stelios came in from a Cyprus team (11th in League) as he wanted to return to the UK (born here). No contract paid off.

Kyle Hutton's loan extended with Airdrie. Steven McGinn contacts St Mirren asking to be signed as he wasn't getting a game for Wycombe. His agent advised against the move due to the reduction in wages by McGinn signed anyway. No contract paid off.

Kyle McAllister sold to Derby in a deal work in excess of £400K. Harry Davis signs from Crewe on the last day of the transfer window where he was on strike. No contract paid off.

 

So while the wages of Loy and Davis may have been more than the players they replaced the rest were like for like with no-one getting paid off and substantial income derived. I know that McAllister's money has not been touched. And the fans donated 8k to help pay any wage increases. He-haw spent in fact!

 

[The Moonster]

4 minutes ago, NorthBank said:

OK let's go through the list.

Scott Gallagher (keeper) left to go to Hibs. O'Brien came in on loan from Man City. No contract paid off.

Calum Gallagher left to go to Dumbarton. Josh Todd came in from Dumbarton. Maybe a little compensation but I do not know for sure.

Hardie left to return to Rangers. Loy came in. No contract paid off.

Shankland left to join Morton. Cammy Smith came in from Aberdeen on loan (but was with DUFC). No contract paid off.

Naismith was sold to RC (fee not disclosed but assumed to be 30/40k). Eckersley signed as he had no club in the USA and wanted to return. No contract paid off - money in!

Walsh return to Rangers. Storrie comes in on loan. No contract paid off.

Jordan Stewart goes on loan to Annan. Pal Fyelde signed from Norwegian Second Division (was in UK looking for a club), No contract paid off.

Kalvin Orsi left on loan to Queens Park. Stelios came in from a Cyprus team (11th in League) as he wanted to return to the UK (born here). No contract paid off.

Kyle Hutton's loan extended with Airdrie. Steven McGinn contacts St Mirren asking to be signed as he wasn't getting a game for Wycombe. His agent advised against the move due to the reduction in wages by McGinn signed anyway. No contract paid off.

Kyle McAllister sold to Derby in a deal work in excess of £400K. Harry Davis signs from Crewe on the last day of the transfer window where he was on strike. No contract paid off.

 

So while the wages of Loy and Davis may have been more than the players they replaced the rest were like for like with no-one getting paid off and substantial income derived. I know that McAllister's money has not been touched. And the fans donated 8k to help pay any wage increases. He-haw spent in fact!

 

Calum Gallagher received a pay-off. So "nobody being paid off" is in fact a lie and not a fact. And if you think McGinn came in for the same wage as Hutton you're deluded. And if you think sending a young player out on loan and bringing in Cammy Smith keeps your books balanced then I'm not sure why I'm even bothering.

[Demented Zebra]

2 minutes ago, The Moonster said:

Calum Gallagher received a pay-off. So "nobody being paid off" is in fact a lie and not a fact. And if you think McGinn came in for the same wage as Hutton you're deluded. And if you think sending a young player out on loan and bringing in Cammy Smith keeps your books balanced then I'm not sure why I'm even bothering.

Does it matter ? A penny in a penny out that is how our club operates. McGinn has 33% sell on clause McLean 10% sell on clause. Manager in the Evening Times we have the budget for 2 more players one being Loy. Our books are very healthy . 

[Homer Thompson]

Just now, Demented Zebra said:

Does it matter ? A penny in a penny out that is how our club operates. McGinn has 33% sell on clause McLean 10% sell on clause. Manager in the Evening Times we have the budget for 2 more players one being Loy. Our books are very healthy . 

It does matter if you want to convince people you didnt spend money by releasing contracted players.

[NorthBank]

2 minutes ago, The Moonster said:

Calum Gallagher received a pay-off. So "nobody being paid off" is in fact a lie and not a fact. And if you think McGinn came in for the same wage as Hutton you're deluded. And if you think sending a young player out on loan and bringing in Cammy Smith keeps your books balanced then I'm not sure why I'm even bothering.

Well, saying 10 were paid off is a bigger lie!  I have made it clear that some money was spent but it was 1. not a lot and 2. it was offset by income from 2 streams - Naismith and fans' donation. The likes of Smith came in from the money we no longer had to pay Shankland so it was not a young player going out on loan. And I am not going to bother presenting information to help someone to understand when they have already come to a opinion and ignore the facts.

[Coventry Saint]

9 minutes ago, The Moonster said:

I'm not sure why I'm even bothering.

Well, none of us is sure of that, tbf.

The context of the debate was whether we had blown this summer's budget in January. It's been pretty accurately demonstrated why that's not the case.

The myth that we bought our way out of trouble seems to to pervade, but I'm not sure why it bothers folk, and I'm certainly not sure why people might have expected us to do anything else. We did good business, we stayed up. It was a gamble that paid off, but one which didn't involve blowing any budgets.

So yes, I'm not sure why you're bothering or, really, what point you're trying to make.

[Dudu Dahan pal]

dont worry, you'll get your 20% sell on fee soon enough.

[Coventry Saint]

1 minute ago, Hibeesbounce75 said:

dont worry, you'll get your 20% sell on fee soon enough.

Bear in mind we'll charge you interest until you pay off the remaining 13%.

[The Moonster]

4 minutes ago, NorthBank said:

Well, saying 10 were paid off is a bigger lie!  I have made it clear that some money was spent but it was 1. not a lot and 2. it was offset by income from 2 streams - Naismith and fans' donation. The likes of Smith came in from the money we no longer had to pay Shankland so it was not a young player going out on loan. And I am not going to bother presenting information to help someone to understand when they have already come to a opinion and ignore the facts.

I never said all 10 were paid off, I said of that 10 you would have paid some off. It's easy to ignore facts when you don't present any.

1 minute ago, Coventry Saint said:

Well, none of us is sure of that, tbf.

The context of the debate was whether we had blown this summer's budget in January. It's been pretty accurately demonstrated why that's not the case.

The myth that we bought our way out of trouble seems to to pervade, but I'm not sure why it bothers folk, and I'm certainly not sure why people might have expected us to do anything else. We did good business, we stayed up. It was a gamble that paid off, but one which didn't involve blowing any budgets.

So yes, I'm not sure why you're bothering or, really, what point you're trying to make.

Fair, my point was more that the middle ground between spending all your money and none of your money is the truth but some seemed to guffaw at that and want to insist that St Mirren "didn't spend a penny" whilst at the same time admitting that fans gave £8K to the club to cover wage increases.

[Demented Zebra]

15 minutes ago, Mr X said:

It does matter if you want to convince people you didnt spend money by releasing contracted players.

I don't get the point mate. If a players contract was cut short and the said player did not take legal action would assume from that everything was above board. It still takes us back to a club with no debt so all the changes in January were done within budget. 

[NorthBank]

2 minutes ago, The Moonster said:

I never said all 10 were paid off, I said of that 10 you would have paid some off. It's easy to ignore facts when you don't present any.

Fair, my point was more that the middle ground between spending all your money and none of your money is the truth but some seemed to guffaw at that and want to insist that St Mirren "didn't spend a penny" whilst at the same time admitting that fans gave £8K to the club to cover wage increases.

Where does that quote come from?

Maybe your definition of hee-haw and mine differ - it does not mean 'zero' but 'minimum' to me.  If I get something for hee-haw means I did not get it for free but at minimum cost.

As CS says there is a myth that we spent our way out of potential relegation. Out of the 10 that left we sold 2 players and 3 bigger earners returned to their parent clubs - all at no cost. 3 went on loan. 1 was released to join Hibs and I made it clear that I did not know if C Gallagher got a payment. I do not understand you being so intent about this. We performed some great business in Jan. Some of it was fortunate - McGinn and Davis - but we did not go out with a blank cheque book. It was great housekeeping.

[Arch Stanton]

24 minutes ago, Hibeesbounce75 said:

dont worry, you'll get your 20% sell on fee soon enough.

It's only 10% we get from McLean moving on.

[buddie06smfc]

We achieved what we set out to do in January after a disastrous first 6 months of the season. Who cares how much we spent or didn't spend.

The financial difference between staying up & going down to the diddy leagues will definitely offset whatever financial outlay there was in January.

It's great being filthy rich.

[Coventry Saint]

[Homer Thompson]

14 minutes ago, Demented Zebra said:

I don't get the point mate. If a players contract was cut short and the said player did not take legal action would assume from that everything was above board. It still takes us back to a club with no debt so all the changes in January were done within budget. 

The point is that there seems to be this idea amongst some fans that getting rid of a player who is still under contract doesnt cost money. Even if they move to another club they're more than likely to have received some sort of pay-off.

No ones suggesting it isnt above board, or even that saints spent mega bucks in January. But saying 10 players left and 10 came in, implying that the net spend is £0 is clearly wrong. 

[Skyline Drifter]

1 hour ago, NorthBank said:

OK let's go through the list.

Scott Gallagher (keeper) left to go to Hibs. O'Brien came in on loan from Man City. No contract paid off.

Calum Gallagher left to go to Dumbarton. Josh Todd came in from Dumbarton. Maybe a little compensation but I do not know for sure.

Hardie left to return to Rangers. Loy came in. No contract paid off.

Shankland left to join Morton. Cammy Smith came in from Aberdeen on loan (but was with DUFC). No contract paid off.

Naismith was sold to RC (fee not disclosed but assumed to be 30/40k). Eckersley signed as he had no club in the USA and wanted to return. No contract paid off - money in!

Walsh return to Rangers. Storrie comes in on loan. No contract paid off.

Jordan Stewart goes on loan to Annan. Pal Fyelde signed from Norwegian Second Division (was in UK looking for a club), No contract paid off.

Kalvin Orsi left on loan to Queens Park. Stelios came in from a Cyprus team (11th in League) as he wanted to return to the UK (born here). No contract paid off.

Kyle Hutton's loan extended with Airdrie. Steven McGinn contacts St Mirren asking to be signed as he wasn't getting a game for Wycombe. His agent advised against the move due to the reduction in wages by McGinn signed anyway. No contract paid off.

Kyle McAllister sold to Derby in a deal work in excess of £400K. Harry Davis signs from Crewe on the last day of the transfer window where he was on strike. No contract paid off.

 

So while the wages of Loy and Davis may have been more than the players they replaced the rest were like for like with no-one getting paid off and substantial income derived. I know that McAllister's money has not been touched. And the fans donated 8k to help pay any wage increases. He-haw spent in fact!

 

Absolutely no chance Calum Gallagher left for Dumbarton without a pay off. And even less chance that Airdrie were remotely covering Kyle Hutton's wage. Be lucky if they were covering even half of it. Reduced wages or not McGinn would have been on a hell of a lot more than Airdrie paid you for Hutton (who you have since paid off for a further year too). Very likely Scott Gallacher had at least some pay off too though no idea if O'Brien cost anything or not.

You beat three other full time Championship clubs to Loy's signature and paid a lot more for him than you would have been for Hardie.

I'd be very surprised if County paid as much as £30k to buy a player they were getting for free in four months time. Something nearer £10k to £15k seems more likely. Annan wouldn't have paid anywhere near a full time wage for Jordan Stewart so that's not covering Fjelde's wage. Davis would have cost a lot more than Naismith.

Of course the fees for Naismith and McAllister meant you could easily afford this but the idea the changes were cost neutral in payroll terms is utter fallacy.

[NorthBank]

4 minutes ago, Skyline Drifter said:

Absolutely no chance Calum Gallagher left for Dumbarton without a pay off. And even less chance that Airdrie were remotely covering Kyle Hutton's wage. Be lucky if they were covering even half of it. Reduced wages or not McGinn would have been on a hell of a lot more than Airdrie paid you for Hutton (who you have since paid off for a further year too). Very likely Scott Gallacher had at least some pay off too though no idea if O'Brien cost anything or not.

You beat three other full time Championship clubs to Loy's signature and paid a lot more for him than you would have been for Hardie.

I'd be very surprised if County paid as much as £30k to buy a player they were getting for free in four months time. Something nearer £10k to £15k seems more likely. Annan wouldn't have paid anywhere near a full time wage for Jordan Stewart so that's not covering Fjelde's wage. Davis would have cost a lot more than Naismith.

Of course the fees for Naismith and McAllister meant you could easily afford this but the idea the changes were cost neutral in payroll terms is utter fallacy.

No-one claimed they were cost neutral.

[paisleysaints]

1 hour ago, glenburn bud said:

Have a look on black & white army where you can see all the usual suspects preparing for a full scale meltdown. 

You should visit the official one then a certain Mr Dickson has appeared there and filling it with his usual positive take on st mirren and good work done by the club!!