Coventry Saint Posted June 23, 2018 Share Posted June 23, 2018 In fairness, on the subject of Stokes, I don't think people are using 'no brainer' in the usual context. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demented Zebra Posted June 23, 2018 Share Posted June 23, 2018 1 hour ago, Buddist Monk said: 14 games, that's all he played under Stubbs, it's hardly a huge legacy although to be fair to Stokes it seems that 6 months is pretty good for him not to get papped out from a team for causing some sort of rumpus. When you say his goal scoring record speaks volumes, I'm not sure you actually know what his goal scoring record is. With Celtic he averaged out at 10 goals a season. His record at Hibs is not any better and his record for Blackburn and Apollon is worse. In the last two seasons combined he's scored 8 goals. I wish people would stop over playing this man's talents. Is he a good player? Yes. Is he such a good player that we should gamble on him, possibly ruining our reputation and destroying squad unity? No, quite clearly he is not. I find this whole "no brainer" attitude really strange, it's like people refuse to see the obvious reasons why that is simply not the case. I do not believe that Stokes is the best the club can hope for, and if it is, then to be honest I'd rather be relegated by us not scoring enough goals than be relegated because of some guy who is incapable of screwing the nut fucks the team/club over. 40 games Hibs = 22 goals is not bad. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demented Zebra Posted June 23, 2018 Share Posted June 23, 2018 8 minutes ago, Coventry Saint said: In fairness, on the subject of Stokes, I don't think people are using 'no brainer' in the usual context. If he screws the head he is the type of player who could make a big difference. Admit it's a gamble one worth taking. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djchapsticks Posted June 23, 2018 Author Share Posted June 23, 2018 2 hours ago, Buddist Monk said: I'm not sure you actually know what his goal scoring record is. With Celtic he averaged out at 10 goals a season. I'd say you're the one who doesn't know what his goalscoring record is because: 1) That's totally inaccurate, he was in the Celtic side for 5 full seasons (and no, we don't count his last season where he didn't play for them) and scored 76 goals. Several of those appearances from the bench as well. 2) He wasn't always a regular for Celtic and indeed in a couple of those seasons, was reduced to a bit part. 3) His goalscoring record is exactly this - He's made 273 appearances in Scottish football and Scored 134 goals. As good as 1 in 2 and that's including sub appearances for Celtic, of which, I previously pointed out, there were several. Whatever the arguments about his mindset and baggage, I get you and can understand. Your arguments about the actual ability of the guy to perform at this level are completely wrong though. Name me one realistic option with that sort of record at his age that we could go out and get. Just one. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arch Stanton Posted June 23, 2018 Share Posted June 23, 2018 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djchapsticks Posted June 23, 2018 Author Share Posted June 23, 2018 Just now, Arch Stanton said: Probably the best bit of business we'll do all summer. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ulysses Posted June 23, 2018 Share Posted June 23, 2018 Superb. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glenburn bud Posted June 23, 2018 Share Posted June 23, 2018 1 minute ago, djchapsticks said: Probably the best bit of business we'll do all summer. Superb news. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FTOF Posted June 23, 2018 Share Posted June 23, 2018 14 hours ago, glenburn bud said: It’s all coming together, can you arrange to have the icing on the cake and get our good friends over at C.D.BORGONYA to invite us over for a friendly. They'd be delighted to have us over. I think it's Saints that need convincing. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buddist Monk Posted June 23, 2018 Share Posted June 23, 2018 7 minutes ago, djchapsticks said: I'd say you're the one who doesn't know what his goalscoring record is because: 1) That's totally inaccurate, he was in the Celtic side for 5 full seasons (and no, we don't count his last season where he didn't play for them) and scored 76 goals. Several of those appearances from the bench as well. 2) He wasn't always a regular for Celtic and indeed in a couple of those seasons, was reduced to a bit part. 3) His goalscoring record is exactly this - He's made 273 appearances in Scottish football and Scored 134 goals. As good as 1 in 2 and that's including sub appearances for Celtic, of which, I previously pointed out, there were several. Whatever the arguments about his mindset and baggage, I get you and can understand. Your arguments about the actual ability of the guy to perform at this level are completely wrong though. Out of interest where are you getting his scoring record? I'm not trying to represent intentionally false figures but on Wikipedia it's listed as 58, not 76, for his time at Celtic. I'd also counter some of the other points made, however none of them are stating that he's a shit player. He's clearly got talent. I think perhaps that talent is given a little too much credit, and that talent is waning, but I'm guessing that's a more subjective call. 14 minutes ago, djchapsticks said: Name me one realistic option with that sort of record at his age that we could go out and get. Just one. I see where you are coming from with that comment, but it's a bit of a false dichotomy. Whether there is someone or not out there shouldn't stop us discussing his merits (or not) in isolation. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
houston_bud Posted June 23, 2018 Share Posted June 23, 2018 (edited) Excellent news about Magennis. Really looking forward to seeing him in the Premiership, he's definitely ready to make a step up. Edited June 23, 2018 by houston_bud 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buddist Monk Posted June 23, 2018 Share Posted June 23, 2018 18 minutes ago, Arch Stanton said: I think I'm only repeating what everyone else has said (or will say), but that I feel is a really key bit of business. I've been mightily impressed by his development over the year from what (imo) seemed like a slightly gangly player with potential, into a real threat on the pitch with bags of talent. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shawfield shed boy Posted June 23, 2018 Share Posted June 23, 2018 Playing Clyde today in CD game. All i know so far 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djchapsticks Posted June 23, 2018 Author Share Posted June 23, 2018 20 minutes ago, Buddist Monk said: Out of interest where are you getting his scoring record? I'm not trying to represent intentionally false figures but on Wikipedia it's listed as 58, not 76, for his time at Celtic. I'd also counter some of the other points made, however none of them are stating that he's a shit player. He's clearly got talent. I think perhaps that talent is given a little too much credit, and that talent is waning, but I'm guessing that's a more subjective call. I see where you are coming from with that comment, but it's a bit of a false dichotomy. Whether there is someone or not out there shouldn't stop us discussing his merits (or not) in isolation. All competitions. Even going by league appearances and goals alone though. 106 starts and 29 more from the bench - 58 goals is a fantastic record. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buddist Monk Posted June 23, 2018 Share Posted June 23, 2018 (edited) 22 minutes ago, djchapsticks said: All competitions. Even going by league appearances and goals alone though. 106 starts and 29 more from the bench - 58 goals is a fantastic record. Which over a 6 year period (2010-2016) is 10 goals a year. Even then, it's not his goal scoring prowess that's the issue. In the same way you said you get where I'm coming from, I also get where others are coming from too. We'll just have to see how this all shakes out. Edit: Kenny Miller has an infinitely better record than Stokes, yet he's been roundly derided as a bad option that will cause problems in the squad. Edited June 23, 2018 by Buddist Monk 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glenburn bud Posted June 23, 2018 Share Posted June 23, 2018 Closed door game at broadwood v Clyde where Stokes is playing as a trialist. That should piss off the Buddist Monk. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buddist Monk Posted June 23, 2018 Share Posted June 23, 2018 2 minutes ago, glenburn bud said: Closed door game at broadwood v Clyde where Stokes is playing as a trialist. That should piss off the Buddist Monk. Trust me, I'm nowhere near as annoyed as seeing Camara's name repeatedly put on the team sheet by Gus. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djchapsticks Posted June 23, 2018 Author Share Posted June 23, 2018 49 minutes ago, Buddist Monk said: Which over a 6 year period (2010-2016) is 10 goals a year. Even then, it's not his goal scoring prowess that's the issue. In the same way you said you get where I'm coming from, I also get where others are coming from too. We'll just have to see how this all shakes out. Edit: Kenny Miller has an infinitely better record than Stokes, yet he's been roundly derided as a bad option that will cause problems in the squad. Now, you know as well as I do that no one is judged over a year. 5 seasons. More accurate is appearances and starts to goals. A quick look at Soccerbase shows he had two bad injuries that lost him two half seasons as well. All things being equal, I'd probably agree with you over Miller. But it's not equal. He's pushing 39 and that is the biggest factor in not preferring him for me. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmontheloknow Posted June 23, 2018 Share Posted June 23, 2018 Just for any St Mirren stattos out there, the lad Jim Kellerman from Aldershot has a commonly given DOB of 10/11/97 online, I've seen that on the stmirren.info fansite too. However he was a 1st Year Pro (what they call down there a Scholar) at Wolves in 2011-12... http://www.player.wolves.co.uk.p.preprod.performgroup.com/page/AcademyProfiles/0,,10307,00.html He has to be about 3 years younger therefore, as a '97 birth would have been too young to sign pro (have to be 17 in England). The initial signing news gave him as being 23 and that would appear correct. Not seen the correct figure though for what it's worth, FM17 said 11/12/94! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lebowski Posted June 23, 2018 Share Posted June 23, 2018 Which over a 6 year period (2010-2016) is 10 goals a year. [emoji6] Even then, it's not his goal scoring prowess that's the issue. In the same way you said you get where I'm coming from, I also get where others are coming from too. We'll just have to see how this all shakes out. Edit: Kenny Miller has an infinitely better record than Stokes, yet he's been roundly derided as a bad option that will cause problems in the squad. Kenny Miller is also 10 years older than him and his knee collapsed from trying to turn at Easter Road last season...Stokes needs a specific set up to get him working and motivated imo. I'm not sure any club should be willing to do that, but if they do he'll score plenty of goals. At which point he will be looking for a move and it will require a complete rebuild. Fwiw there were no issues with him under Stubbs at Hibs. He might be the manager he needs. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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