Captain_Sensible Posted July 18, 2023 Share Posted July 18, 2023 4 minutes ago, aldo_j said: Aye…and we got beat We got beat most games that season whatever tactics we deployed! We’re discussing what went wrong almost a quarter of a century ago. Superb! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ric Posted July 18, 2023 Share Posted July 18, 2023 I really don't understand what Robinson is trying to achieve up front. We lost our main (ha!) goal threat and replaced them with an experienced journeyman who doesn't score goals, an unknown with a familiar connection and a foreign Hail Mary. Add into this Grieve who seems to have regressed, McMenamin who we don't know where he'll be playing (please not wing back, but is he going to be wide or central?) and an injured Ayunga who is about the only player in the team at this point who genuinely looks a goal threat, and he's out until October at least. Can Robinson make a silk purse out of this pig's ear? Maybe, but it seems quite the task to turn all those mentioned into a cogent threat. Now, just to clarify, I am not going, "oh, this is shit, Robbo out!", this is me going, "how are you going to put that jigsaw puzzle together, because to me none of the bits look to fit together". I think most of us know my concerns about Hemming, and some share them, but that seems to be a case of just suck it up and hope he plays better than when he was with Killie last year. That's quite the gamble considering whose gloves he will be inheriting - assuming the Carson incident is done and he moves on without an experienced replacement coming in. I'm not using the pre-season friendly or LC game(s) to judge this, we've been pretty poor but that's not necessarily a portent as we've been dreadful in pre-season in previous seasons too and gone on to have good and/or bad campaigns. Last year we badly bombed the cup and still had a good season. There are some positives, in that we still have Strain and Baccus in the team, the boy Sutherland looks like he wants to step up and Taylor seems to be improving. It's not all doom and gloom, but the old adage of "you only bring in players that improve the squad", and other than perhaps McMenamin I'm not sure you can say that's happened this window. No idea if we are finished in the market yet, presumably not if we get some money for Carson (or Baccus and/or Strain) and we do need wing back cover (for both sides!) although the loss of either of the Aussie guys would leave us looking quite a bit weaker than we were last season. As I say, this looks like a puzzle where the bits don't quite fit, and if Robinson can get this squad to play at the level of last season's squad (and in reality, there's not a lot of change, just change in key areas) then fair play to the lad. He knows football management and what makes a player infinitely better than I do. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SS77 Posted July 18, 2023 Share Posted July 18, 2023 21 minutes ago, GAD said: Pretty sure Scotland did it as well moderately successfully under Smith with Lee McCulloch wide on the left. Popular tactic in the 00's! Hearts done it against us and played Ikpeazu against Calum Waters. The most unfair physical match up of all time and Waters got absolutely battered. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain_Sensible Posted July 18, 2023 Share Posted July 18, 2023 10 minutes ago, Ric said: I really don't understand what Robinson is trying to achieve up front. We lost our main (ha!) goal threat and replaced them with an experienced journeyman who doesn't score goals Main has a career record of 78 goals in 418 games, compared with Mandron’s 65 in 308 games Main scored 9 goals last season, his second best ever season. Mandron has averaged 9 goals a season over the past 7 seasons. In terms of individual goalscoring threat, Main v Mandron, the stats suggest we haven’t last too much there. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted July 18, 2023 Share Posted July 18, 2023 1 hour ago, houston_bud said: After 99/00 (and as an over confident teenager) i was convinced we'd be pushing for Europe that season. The naivety of youth! From the 99/00 season we lost Lavety and Mendes. We were also ravaged by injury in 00/01 season too. Yardley, Ian Ross, Tom Brown were all out injured for long spells. Ludo missed a few games too, as did Iain Nicolson I'm sure. We were probably weaker in that season than we were in 99/00, whereas Dundee Utd were able to go on a spending spree. Not sure why Ludo being injured was an issue - according to the latest edition of Black and White magazine, Derek Scrimgour was "great value" and his form a key part of us winning the league 23 minutes ago, houston_bud said: I think that's a wee bit harsh on Hendrie. A lot of players improved under him. Yardley case in point. He was far more consistent in 99/00 than he had been before. I remember the trial game where Ritchie scored (clearly not that well as i cant remember who it was agaisnt). I didn't think he was very good. When he scored a guy beside me said something along the lines of 'f**k sake, we'll need to sign him now'. I guess managers live and die by their decisions and that one probably cost Hendrie. It was Wigan. Wondered if the aforementioned McCulloch had played but apparently not: http://www.stmirrenprogrammes.co.uk/StMirren/STM_Match_Details.php?Season=2001&GameID=200107240 A fair number of Ritchie's goals for Caley Thistle must have been against us - including at least one hat-trick. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain_Sensible Posted July 18, 2023 Share Posted July 18, 2023 (edited) 35 minutes ago, houston_bud said: I remember the trial game where Ritchie scored (clearly not that well as i cant remember who it was agaisnt). I didn't think he was very good. When he scored a guy beside me said something along the lines of 'f**k sake, we'll need to sign him now'. I guess managers live and die by their decisions and that one probably cost Hendrie. We did sign Alex Burns that season. He was an attacking midfielder with a record of scoring goals. Hendrie failed to combine both him and Gillies in the same side and he only scored 1 goal for us. He then joined Partick Thistle, then in the Premier League, and they played him as a striker where he scored 16 league goals We had a promotion winning strike force right under our noses at the start of 09/01, Ritchie & Burns Hindsight is a wonderful thing Edited July 18, 2023 by Captain_Sensible 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coventry Saint Posted July 18, 2023 Share Posted July 18, 2023 County also played Stewart down the left. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunning1874 Posted July 18, 2023 Share Posted July 18, 2023 Obviously there's the crucial difference here that a lot of your squad are actually good, but if you sign Pressley that seems to be Alex Rae levels of imbalanced squad building on Robinson's part. Even accounting for Ayunga's injury, which is charitable since it's not like he's out for the season, you've got Mandron, Grieve, Jamieson, Offord and Olusanya who can play at centre foward, with McMenamin and Kiltie to accommodate out wide or off a striker as well. While it's all well and good to argue that Olusanya can play out wide too so might be used there instead/is mince so might be moved on, and Offord or Jamieson could be loaned out again rather than being properly considered part of the first team, why bother signing Mandron if there was a chance of Pressley when you already have this number of attacking players to accommodate? When you're light on defenders as well that's pretty wild. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drooper Posted July 18, 2023 Share Posted July 18, 2023 5 minutes ago, Dunning1874 said: Obviously there's the crucial difference here that a lot of your squad are actually good, but if you sign Pressley that seems to be Alex Rae levels of imbalanced squad building on Robinson's part. Even accounting for Ayunga's injury, which is charitable since it's not like he's out for the season, you've got Mandron, Grieve, Jamieson, Offord and Olusanya who can play at centre foward, with McMenamin and Kiltie to accommodate out wide or off a striker as well. While it's all well and good to argue that Olusanya can play out wide too so might be used there instead/is mince so might be moved on, and Offord or Jamieson could be loaned out again rather than being properly considered part of the first team, why bother signing Mandron if there was a chance of Pressley when you already have this number of attacking players to accommodate? When you're light on defenders as well that's pretty wild. We need a left back, and a goalkeeper. That's it, really. Gogic can play in central defence, as can Fraser (at a push). With Taylor, Dunne, and Gallagher, we have central defensive options. The left of defence is a concern, yes, but we must assume the manager is aware of this. I'm not really sure where the suggestion that we are wildly imbalanced is coming from. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ric Posted July 18, 2023 Share Posted July 18, 2023 7 minutes ago, Captain_Sensible said: Main has a career record of 78 goals in 418 games, compared with Mandron’s 65 in 308 games Main scored 9 goals last season, his second best ever season. Mandron has averaged 9 goals a season over the past 7 seasons. In terms of individual goalscoring threat, Main v Mandron, the stats suggest we haven’t last too much there. My post was about how Robinson is going to mould what we have into a genuine threat, it's not the fact we've replaced Main with Mandron in terms of goalscoring, it's that we've replaced the type of player Main is with the type of player Mandron is. However, if you wish to look specifically at the Mandron/Main situation we have to accept two things, 1) Main had one of his best seasons for us, not just in goals but as a player. 2) Madron played in a team with Van Veen who hit an unbelievable purple patch. Main scored 9 last season, but Mandron scored one (league) goal, and was injured for over 1/3rd of the available games. Pressley and Nahmani we know next to nothing about, and there is scant info if you go scouring the relevant football forums. We'll just have to see. But, yeah.. my point was less a like for like comparison and more a "how does this all fit together, because to me they don't", with the huge caveat that we don't know what formation we'll be playing. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
medals Posted July 18, 2023 Share Posted July 18, 2023 37 minutes ago, Ric said: I really don't understand what Robinson is trying to achieve up front. We lost our main (ha!) goal threat... Can Robinson make a silk purse out of this pig's ear? This is me going, "how are you going to put that jigsaw puzzle together. my concerns about Hemming, he's quite the gamble. "you only bring in players that improve the squad", and other than perhaps McMenamin I'm not sure you can say that's happened this window. Are we finished in the market yet? Not sure why you can understand what SR is trying to achieve up front - it's more goals. Where is the pig's ear? It's the managers job to build a good squad and perform well - so it's his jigsaw. How well or badly he does determines his future and our clubs, at least in the short term. It doesn't matter if fans can't see the big picture right now. The Hemming issue is another of the crazy things a manager has to deal with. So far he's been fine other than a penalty, but our defense did not help that situation. The lad deserves his chance but when Carson goes we will add another Gk. You've judged that we haven't improved the squad so far then? Time to judge is once its Co.plete and over the season with the usual January tweaks. No we are not finished in the market yet - 5 weeks to go and there are spaces to fill. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ric Posted July 18, 2023 Share Posted July 18, 2023 20 minutes ago, Coventry Saint said: County also played Stewart down the left. Didn't he give an interview where he said he preferred that position? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djchapsticks Posted July 18, 2023 Author Share Posted July 18, 2023 Pressley is out in the US with Brentford as of this morning. I don't think that would be happening if we were putting pen to paper today... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
medals Posted July 18, 2023 Share Posted July 18, 2023 1 minute ago, djchapsticks said: Pressley is out in the US with Brentford as of this morning. I don't think that would be happening if we were putting pen to paper today... So you thinking it's not Pressley now then OR? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djchapsticks Posted July 18, 2023 Author Share Posted July 18, 2023 Just now, medals said: So you thinking it's not Pressley now then OR? Well why would he be in Washington DC if we were about to tie it up in the next day or so? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
callum-g Posted July 18, 2023 Share Posted July 18, 2023 4 minutes ago, medals said: Not sure why you can understand what SR is trying to achieve up front - it's more goals. Where is the pig's ear? It's the managers job to build a good squad and perform well - so it's his jigsaw. How well or badly he does determines his future and our clubs, at least in the short term. It doesn't matter if fans can't see the big picture right now. The Hemming issue is another of the crazy things a manager has to deal with. So far he's been fine other than a penalty, but our defense did not help that situation. The lad deserves his chance but when Carson goes we will add another Gk. You've judged that we haven't improved the squad so far then? Time to judge is once its Co.plete and over the season with the usual January tweaks. No we are not finished in the market yet - 5 weeks to go and there are spaces to fill. Agree with the penalty incident , Defence was shocking, let the ball run through while Flynn & Gogic (?) did their best “to me -to you” chuckle brothers routine. Give the lad a chance. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted July 18, 2023 Share Posted July 18, 2023 "The two coming in are going to be quite a way off fitness-wise. One hasn’t trained for eight weeks and one has been out injured and is coming back" https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/in-your-area/renfrewshire/stephen-robinson-makes-st-mirren-30491618 Stav is the one that hasn't trained, so the unannounced one has been injured. Think Moult has had an injury... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
callum-g Posted July 18, 2023 Share Posted July 18, 2023 (edited) 3 hours ago, Ric said: My post was about how Robinson is going to mould what we have into a genuine threat, it's not the fact we've replaced Main with Mandron in terms of goalscoring, it's that we've replaced the type of player Main is with the type of player Mandron is. However, if you wish to look specifically at the Mandron/Main situation we have to accept two things, 1) Main had one of his best seasons for us, not just in goals but as a player. 2) Madron played in a team with Van Veen who hit an unbelievable purple patch. Main scored 9 last season, but Mandron scored one (league) goal, and was injured for over 1/3rd of the available games. Pressley and Nahmani we know next to nothing about, and there is scant info if you go scouring the relevant football forums. We'll just have to see. But, yeah.. my point was less a like for like comparison and more a "how does this all fit together, because to me they don't", with the huge caveat that we don't know what formation we'll be playing. Main was absolutely fucking gash for the massive part of his first season with us , most people would have driven him to whichever club would take him off our hands …… then along came Stephen Robinson who managed to get massively improved performances from him. How do we know he won’t get the best out of Mandron ? Edited July 18, 2023 by callum-g 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
medals Posted July 18, 2023 Share Posted July 18, 2023 (edited) 12 minutes ago, djchapsticks said: Well why would he be in Washington DC if we were about to tie it up in the next day or so? So given that our new striker has agreed in principle to sign, it's looking like it's not Pressley then Or Brentford are not happy losing him permanently or ? Edited July 18, 2023 by medals 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Molotov Posted July 18, 2023 Share Posted July 18, 2023 1 hour ago, Captain_Sensible said: We’re discussing what went wrong almost a quarter of a century ago. Superb! Sorry that’s my fault . A question though? Would you go with a Yardley-Lavety-Mendes 1st division forward line of 99/00 over what we have today in the top flight? Keep that hairdresser on speed dial. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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