The St. Mirren FC 2023/24 thread

[DukDukGoose]

1 minute ago, Ric said:

I don't think Cormack is clueless, to be fair, he just knows the budget he's working to.

What is clueless is thinking that a 15 goal a season midfielder with a year left on his contract and who has been linked with moves to much bigger clubs, will be swayed into a move up to the Northern granite wastelands - and for his club to expect a derisory figure for the pleasure. That is definitely clueless.

Are St Mirren paying him the wages of a £2-£3m player?

If not then you're never going to get anything like that in the final year of his contract.

[Dons_1988]

2 minutes ago, Ric said:

I don't think Cormack is clueless, to be fair, he just knows the budget he's working to.

What is clueless is thinking that a 15 goal a season midfielder with a year left on his contract and who has been linked with moves to much bigger clubs, will be swayed into a move up to the Northern granite wastelands - and for his club to expect a derisory figure for the pleasure. That is definitely clueless.

That represents considerable value.

Clearly St Mirren have the right to say he's going for free unless we get £2-3m but...no one is paying that. Guaranteed.

[Ric]

1 minute ago, G51 said:

Edouard and Ajer are also in the last year of their deals and the fees for those transfers might be as low as £8m according to the papers.

Not really a valid comparison as both players are desperate leave a team in utter disarray. A year or two ago both we being quoted in the 25-30 million bracket.

1 minute ago, G51 said:

He's a nice player, but he has no real pedigree...

Irrelevant, in the same way Sam Cosgrove who had none, came from Carlisle, banged in a shit load in a short time then ended up being shite again managed to garner a £2m price ticket from Aberdeen.

1 minute ago, G51 said:

Turnbull just went for that kind of money last year, and he was significantly younger and better, with longer on his contract and was going to a club with more buying power.

Turnbull wanted that move that's the reason he went for that money along with him just coming back from an injury. You've used two comparisons here (Ajer/Edouard and Turnbull) and neither of them are similar in situation and circumstance.

[Ric]

6 minutes ago, Merkland Red said:

Are St Mirren paying him the wages of a £2-£3m player?

That makes no sense at all. Extending your logic means players only move for big money if they are being paid the same as what their new contract would be.

Evidence does not back up that premise.

Edited April 28, 2021 by Ric

[G51]

Just now, Ric said:

Not really a valid comparison as both players are desperate leave a team in utter disarray. A year or two ago both we being quoted in the 25-30 million bracket.

Because a year or two both players had significantly longer on their contract. Contract length (and the wages a player gets) matters. Celtic made the decision to keep them around for Terry Munro, knowing that their value would fall off a cliff. It was a gamble that didn't pay off.

Just now, Ric said:

Irrelevant, in the same way Sam Cosgrove who had none, came from Carlisle, banged in a shit load in a short time then ended up being shite again managed to garner a £2m price ticket from Aberdeen.

Pedigree does matter - you pay more for players from bigger clubs and better leagues.

Sam Cosgrove came up here and did the business for multiple seasons for Aberdeen, before getting injured this year and struggling for a couple of weeks in a poor team. It also helped that the team that bought him are complete idiots. Strikers are also generally worth more than other positions.

Just now, Ric said:

Turnbull wanted that move that's the reason he went for that money along with him just coming back from an injury. You've used two comparisons here (Ajer/Edouard and Turnbull) and neither of them are similar in situation and circumstance.

Turnbull would have taken a move to any club willing to pay the money for him. There were plenty of offers for him, including some from England. That's how players work - they'll generally go wherever for a pay rise. I don't think you can accuse Turnbull of artificially deflating the fee paid for him by saying "I want Celtic and only Celtic".

 

[wastecoatwilly]

If St Mirren want to cash in on McGrath I've got no problem with them trying to get as much as possible,Lewis Morgan is probably a better example.
For me you have to protect the club if the player wants to go then set a price plus we want players like McGrath to stay in the league but we all know the green eyed monster will come calling from down south.

[Ric]

3 minutes ago, G51 said:

Because a year or two both players had significantly longer on their contract. Contract length (and the wages a player gets) matters. Celtic made the decision to keep them around for Terry Munro, knowing that their value would fall off a cliff. It was a gamble that didn't pay off.

Pedigree does matter - you pay more for players from bigger clubs and better leagues.

Sam Cosgrove came up here and did the business for multiple seasons for Aberdeen, before getting injured this year and struggling for a couple of weeks in a poor team. It also helped that the team that bought him are complete idiots. Strikers are also generally worth more than other positions.

Turnbull would have taken a move to any club willing to pay the money for him. There were plenty of offers for him, including some from England. That's how players work - they'll generally go wherever for a pay rise. I don't think you can accuse Turnbull of artificially deflating the fee paid for him by saying "I want Celtic and only Celtic".

 

It seems, to me, you are undermining your own point with that answer. "Pedigree matters" then contradicting that with the example of Cosgrove, for example, or ignoring that Celtic's failure this season and the players performance somehow didn't affect the price of Ajer/Edouard.

Just now, wastecoatwilly said:

If St Mirren want to cash in on McGrath I've got no problem with them trying to get as much as possible,Lewis Morgan is probably a better example.

Not really, as Morgan, good player he is, only played for us in the Championship and was very keen to make the move. What's more the deal with Celtic was he came back on loan until the end of the season. McGrath has played for us in the Premiership, if not the top scoring midfielder in the league (not checked to be fair) certainly one of them.

 

 

People seem to be baulking at the £2m-3m bracket, but ultimately that is a reasonable value on the player. It would be utterly pointless to let him go for less than 7 figures unless he specifically demands a move. I think the problem is not that he is a great prospect who has demonstrated he is more than capable of coping with the Scottish leagues, it's that he's playing for St Mirren and for some fans, perhaps unintentionally, consider our players to be worth less than the going rate.

[flyingscot]

I don't think McGrath is worth £2-3million, not with a year left if I am being honest. McGinn moved for that type of money and was a better and more experienced player. 

That said we shouldn't be afraid to let him leave at the end of contract as his value is more to the team than a low 6 figure sum. I think if someone like Aberdeen wants him this summer the price should be suitably high - £1m or we run the deal down. 

[DukDukGoose]

30 minutes ago, Ric said:

That makes no sense at all. Extending your logic means players only move for big money if they are being paid the same as what their new contract would be.

Evidence does not back up that premise.

Transfer fees absolutely do have to do with a players earnings. It's the starting basis for any negotiation.

Other things then come in to it such as player image rights and potential revenue generated by the player. You'd have a very hard job justifying £2-3m for a player playing for St Mirren in the final year of his contract, just as we would at Aberdeen too.

That's the reason Aberdeen gave Scott McKenna several new contracts in the space of a couple of years.

[geo87]

Whilst I admire your enthusiasm Ric there is no hope in hell McGrath is worth 2-3m, even if he had a couple of years left on his contract (which we all know he doesn’t).

Yes, his goal return is fantastic but let’s remember most of them are penalties. I think he is a fantastic player and probably one of the first players on the team sheet, but I still don’t think he influences games as much as his ability should allow him to. I would hope goody can persuade him to sign for another year to fend off The Aberdeen \ Hibs of the world, and tell him to hold out for a proper pay day in championship or a big league one club after another (hopefully) successful season in the league with us.

[Genuine Hibs Fan]

You'll take 100k and a 2% sell on fee from Hibs and you'll like it

[DukDukGoose]

1 minute ago, flyingscot said:

I don't think McGrath is worth £2-3million, not with a year left if I am being honest. McGinn moved for that type of money and was a better and more experienced player. 

That said we shouldn't be afraid to let him leave at the end of contract as his value is more to the team than a low 6 figure sum. I think if someone like Aberdeen wants him this summer the price should be suitably high - £1m or we run the deal down. 

To Aberdeen that would be daft money and would likely see us drop out of any battle to sign him but it's absolutely a number St Mirren can ask for. McGrath helping St Mirren to the top six is likely worth around half a million depending on where you finish this season.

[Ric]

  

1 minute ago, Merkland Red said:

Transfer fees absolutely do have to do with a players earnings. It's the starting basis for any negotiation.

Yeah, not really. There is obviously some correlation but it's not even close to being the prime metric.

  

1 minute ago, Merkland Red said:

You'd have a very hard job justifying £2-3m for a player playing for St Mirren in the final year of his contract, just as we would at Aberdeen too.

You mean like Cosgrove?

[Dons_1988]

3 minutes ago, Ric said:

  

Yeah, not really. There is obviously some correlation but it's not even close to being the prime metric.

  

You mean like Cosgrove?

A player is only worth what someone will pay for him and I think you're going to end up disappointed here.

[G51]

16 minutes ago, Ric said:

It seems, to me, you are undermining your own point with that answer. "Pedigree matters" then contradicting that with the example of Cosgrove, for example, or ignoring that Celtic's failure this season and the players performance somehow didn't affect the price of Ajer/Edouard.

 

Cosgrove did it over multiple seasons for Aberdeen, a bigger club than St Mirren. So yeah, pedigree matters.

Celtic's failure this season has clearly affected the price of Ajer and Edouard, but it's not as significant as the length of contract. We're talking about them going for seven figure fees here.

Half a million is a fair price for a guy who can leave for nothing next summer, and who can probably walk for a Glen Kamara-esque fee in January.

[Ric]

Just now, Dons_1988 said:

A player is only worth what someone will pay for him and I think you're going to end up disappointed here.

...and equally if you think McGrath is going to drop everything to join a team that is in transition, for a small fee, you'll to end up disappointed.

[wastecoatwilly]

8 minutes ago, Ric said:

it's that he's playing for St Mirren and for some fans, perhaps unintentionally, consider our players to be worth less than the going rate.

For me this is part of the problem,I wouldn't say fans I would say board members undervalue their players.
If a club comes calling from England I would double the price especially if they're going to double or treble their wage.
The fact that the players have all the power the clubs need to protect themselves they can't just keep rolling over and letting players go on the cheap.

[Dons_1988]

1 minute ago, Ric said:

...and equally if you think McGrath is going to drop everything to join a team that is in transition, for a small fee, you'll to end up disappointed.

Not really. I very much doubt we’ll sign him as I don’t think we have the finance to pay necessarily even a £0.5m fee, so I am coming in with little expectation there. 

Im solely challenging you on the idea that an out of contract player is ‘easily’ worth £2-3m.

[Coventry Saint]

Half a million and a decent sell-on would do it.

[DukDukGoose]

11 minutes ago, Ric said:

   

You mean like Cosgrove?

Cosgrove wasn't in the final year of his contract.

Cosgrove had 24 months remaining when we agreed a deal with a team in France for around £2.5m. He refused to leave. He had something sorted down in England and was then injured. In the Winter window we sold him in the final days as a team battling relegation in the Championship made a panic signing based on his goal scoring record in previous years. This is nowhere near similar.

Your 'facts' are all over the place. You also suggested Cormack is doing things on a shoe string which is wrong again. While I've not got much love for the man he didn't take up the option of furlough for the playing squad and actually had them out and about in the community helping the clubs charity (AFC trust) delivering food etc to folk who couldn't get out or are in poverty. He also kept the youth coaches employed and ahd them remotely working with their teams all the way through lockdown etc. Probably a mental and costly decision in hindsight but if he was doing things on a shoe string he'd have sought to take advantage of things immediately.