Sir Tarmo Posted Tuesday at 11:42 Share Posted Tuesday at 11:42 10 minutes ago, welshbairn said: I got the impression that he was keener on avoiding admin than Savage and was hoping the crowd would back him up. Could be way off the mark though. You might be right. I can see how Savage being so openly keen for admin could rub certain individuals the wrong way. It’s inevitable though, barring a miracle in the next week, and we just have to accept it now. I think Savage would have happily gone into admin already, he’s strongly hinted at it and probably wants a clean(er) slate, contrary to what outsiders to this thread such as Morton/Falkirk/Arbroath fans think. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Tarmo Posted Tuesday at 11:43 Share Posted Tuesday at 11:43 3 minutes ago, RednBlackComeback said: My guess is the bulk of the debt is the loans from former directors. I think AS prefers administration because it would mean that the former directors would not receive (all of) their monies back, and that would be their 'punishment' for putting the club in the state that it's in? Probably a mixture of not wanting certain individuals to receive a penny and not wanting to/being able to cough up that money himself. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PB1994 Posted Tuesday at 11:53 Share Posted Tuesday at 11:53 I would say about 95% of the debt it to ex-directors and Savage either can't pay them off or doesn't want to. He said yesterday that he would make sure all the other creditors were looked after, through Orion, as well as any a job offer for anybody who ended up redundant. It's clear Savage wants Administration and why. He says he won't be putting in any more money after the Administration process but his other statements make it clear he wants to be the man in charge of the club at the end of all of this. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RednBlackComeback Posted Tuesday at 11:55 Share Posted Tuesday at 11:55 10 minutes ago, Sir Tarmo said: Probably a mixture of not wanting certain individuals to receive a penny and not wanting to/being able to cough up that money himself. Aye. With a definite emphasis on 'not wanting certain individuals to receive a penny' ! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John MacLean Posted Tuesday at 11:57 Share Posted Tuesday at 11:57 Aside from the 15 point deduction what's the advantage to ICT in avoiding Admin? I can certainly understand why a creditor would prefer to avoid being on a long list of creditors if there was the potential for existing debts to be cleared in full, but what advantage is there for the football club? If someone does have the money that would clear the debts pre Admin would it not be better to use that money to restructure the Club. Perhaps in League Two, perhaps part-time but neither of those need be permanent with good on and off pitch management. Take the hit. Hopefully do a deal that doesn't see creditors shafted too much, and start again. Livi did it. Thistle, to a degree, did it although we never actually went into Admin. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shizzlemanizzle Posted Tuesday at 11:59 Share Posted Tuesday at 11:59 26 minutes ago, RiG said: I never expected us to kick on and start challenging the likes of Aberdeen, Hearts, Hibs or whoever else for regular top three finishes in the top flight after 2015 but the dramatic fall from that high in under ten years is absolutely staggering. There can't be many clubs who have floundered as badly as we have over the last decade. For what it’s worth, all the diddy clubs (hi Rangers) are one rogue owner away from your situation. Ayr Utd were up for sale from our last owner, Lachlan Cameron, for 6 ish years and thankfully batted away many a charlatan. We won a watch in that regard because I believe Lachlan could have cashed in far earlier than he did and was pumping his own cash in to keep us going. Watched the meeting and I must admit I was expecting it to be a bit more Falkirky than it turned out. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KirkieRR Posted Tuesday at 12:03 Share Posted Tuesday at 12:03 36 minutes ago, RiG said: I never expected us to kick on and start challenging the likes of Aberdeen, Hearts, Hibs or whoever else for regular top three finishes in the top flight after 2015 but the dramatic fall from that high in under ten years is absolutely staggering. There can't be many clubs who have floundered as badly as we have over the last decade. Well, one that springs to mind is gulp Gretna. Not an encouraging precedent. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Tarmo Posted Tuesday at 12:04 Share Posted Tuesday at 12:04 (edited) 24 minutes ago, PB1994 said: It's clear Savage wants Administration Don’t be silly, opposition fans have told us otherwise. 19 minutes ago, John MacLean said: Aside from the 15 point deduction what's the advantage to ICT in avoiding Admin? I can certainly understand why a creditor would prefer to avoid being on a long list of creditors if there was the potential for existing debts to be cleared in full, but what advantage is there for the football club? If someone does have the money that would clear the debts pre Admin would it not be better to use that money to restructure the Club. Perhaps in League Two, perhaps part-time but neither of those need be permanent with good on and off pitch management. Take the hit. Hopefully do a deal that doesn't see creditors shafted too much, and start again. Livi did it. Thistle, to a degree, did it although we never actually went into Admin. Administration is the best option logically, barring a miracle investment in the next week or so, no doubt about it. There seems to be a set of fans who think admin is the absolute end, and accuse others of being naive for accepting the truth of the situation, for the purpose of appearing more intelligent than they are. The reality of it is that admin is the only option here, and we have to trust Savage to get us through it. edit - also a 15 point deduction doesn’t mean guaranteed relegation in this dogshit league, however it does mean guaranteed relegation when you’re managed by Duncan Ferguson Edited Tuesday at 12:18 by Sir Tarmo 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savage Henry Posted Tuesday at 12:31 Share Posted Tuesday at 12:31 2 hours ago, welshbairn said: I'm not sure how much Gardiner had to do with the battery farm, it was to be built on land owned by a former director. With the directors being distracted by multi million pound money trees they probably thought Gardiner could handle piddling day to day business on his own, like collecting the £80k due from Carlisle. If it had been a success, you’d have been damn sure his grubby face would be all over it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buzz Killington Posted Tuesday at 12:32 Share Posted Tuesday at 12:32 (edited) 1 hour ago, welshbairn said: I got the impression that he was keener on avoiding admin than Savage and was hoping the crowd would back him up. Could be way off the mark though. Makes sense. When admin happens the Administratior is going to want better answers from the directors that "a bad man did it and ran away" and "lets not dwell on the past" for the lack of board oversight. Edited Tuesday at 12:32 by Buzz Killington 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shizzlemanizzle Posted Tuesday at 12:36 Share Posted Tuesday at 12:36 One guy did shout out, near the end, about pursuing some kind of legal action against Gardiner. It is absolutely criminal what he has done to the club but can any of it become real legal action? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishy Posted Tuesday at 12:44 Share Posted Tuesday at 12:44 12 minutes ago, Savage Henry said: If it had been a success, you’d have been damn sure his grubby face would be all over it. It might not have been his plan or idea but I'm pretty sure he took some of the blame for pissing off the council during the planning stage and making them less inclined to approve it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirJimmyofNic Posted Tuesday at 12:55 Share Posted Tuesday at 12:55 If in the worst case scenario, you get the points deduction and possible relegation to the bottom league, what are your crowds likely to be, would that be enough of a cash inflow to keep you sustainable as a club ?? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishy Posted Tuesday at 13:12 Share Posted Tuesday at 13:12 9 minutes ago, SirJimmyofNic said: If in the worst case scenario, you get the points deduction and possible relegation to the bottom league, what are your crowds likely to be, would that be enough of a cash inflow to keep you sustainable as a club ?? Out of curiosity I looked at our last season in the bottom tier and we averaged 1,579. This was also our first season at the Caledonian Stadium. I reckon that a successful season in League 2 would have us struggling to average 900 over a season. However, a winning team might drag a few more out. Last night Savage confirmed we would be part time at that level so post admin I don't think it matters what league we're in (in terms of longterm sustainability). Obviously the higher up the pyramid we are, the better. As an aside, I thought it was interesting that 5 of the 6 least supported teams in the football league from that season are the ones that have been relegated from league 2 - EFS Attendances (european-football-statistics.co.uk). With only Clydebank (and I guess original Rangers and Airdrie) joining them in no longer being in the football league. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buzz Killington Posted Tuesday at 13:13 Share Posted Tuesday at 13:13 When the club goes into adminstration are all players free to terminate their contracts? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bdu98196 Posted Tuesday at 13:14 Share Posted Tuesday at 13:14 16 minutes ago, SirJimmyofNic said: If in the worst case scenario, you get the points deduction and possible relegation to the bottom league, what are your crowds likely to be, would that be enough of a cash inflow to keep you sustainable as a club ?? Crowds are dropping every year and have been since Prem relegcation, however i would consider a L2 side which are competitive and perhaps wining games will draw more punters than a failing L1 club which we currently are. Biggest factor in all this is it needs to be entertaining which means getting Dunc to f**k 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cardle is Magic Posted Tuesday at 13:16 Share Posted Tuesday at 13:16 Gardiner is clearly a f**king crook but the rest of the incompetent/lazy members of the Board sat back and let him do whatever he wanted. Their inaction is surely borderline for gross negligence? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigkillie Posted Tuesday at 13:19 Share Posted Tuesday at 13:19 5 minutes ago, Buzz Killington said: When the club goes into adminstration are all players free to terminate their contracts? Typically not. Some players would be made redundant, but those who have stayed on would still be getting paid and therefore wouldn't have had their contract breached. The administrators may be duty bound to accept offers for these players in January though. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mozam76 Posted Tuesday at 13:20 Share Posted Tuesday at 13:20 2 hours ago, Buzz Killington said: I just watched that part again (47:10 if anyone cares). It was straight after someone asked about Ketan Makwana's offer for the club and got a "lets not dwell on the past" answer. Then he just out of nowhere asks the question. Hopefully just a coincidence. 2 hours ago, Sir Tarmo said: There was no optimism displayed in that post. It’s certainly a worrying answer from half of the audience, but also worrying and a bit bizarre that anybody at board level (or equivalent) would ask such a question. I can only hope they didn’t understand the question fully. He looked spectacularly out of his depth asking that question. It's nonsense to ask it anyway, and it's nonsense to admit that the answer given by a couple of hundred supporters would help him form an opinion. I noticed that just before he asked the question, when he was speaking about looking at all offers, Savage whispered under his breath but (just) loud enough to hear "and listen". Looking at all this from afar, Savage seems to be bristling not just at how the club got into the state it's in, but also at how things are going just now. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirJimmyofNic Posted Tuesday at 13:20 Share Posted Tuesday at 13:20 (edited) Sounds like Gardiner has a helluva lot to answer for, maybe the fraud squad should be looking into his dealings at the club, in any case he should be sine die from ever being involved in football Edited Tuesday at 13:20 by SirJimmyofNic 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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