Junior football, what is the future?

[cmontheloknow]

5 minutes ago, Khufu2 said:

The Lowland League is an east and south league. There is no west league at tier 5.  Commonsense dictates there should be two leagues at tier 5 serving the central belt and south to balance the Highland league which serves a much smaller population. It is ridiculous to suggest the central belt and south should only have one tier 5 league.

Cmon that's not true.

If Clyde get relegated at the end of this season the go into the LL. The LL contains EKFC and Cumbernauld Colts who are well within the 'West' area. The only side that are 'South' specifically are Dalbeattie Star - Gretna are affiliated to the EoS. BSC slightly anomalous in that they started off in Glasgow and have ended up - with a squad of ex Juniors - playing in Alloa which falls into East territory, just.

The LL is a league with an East bias but that's just the way it has developed. Just as the West Super Premier at times has resembled an Ayrshire league with invited Glasgow clubs - 9-3 was it not a year or so back? 8/4 from memory now. 

[FairWeatherFan]

2 minutes ago, Khufu2 said:

The Lowland League is an east and south league. There is no west league at tier 5.  Commonsense dictates there should be two leagues at tier 5 serving the central belt and south to balance the Highland league which serves a much smaller population. It is ridiculous to suggest the central belt and south should only have one tier 5 league.

No, the Lowland League is the top tiered league catering to those clubs in the SFA Pyramid South of the Tay. That includes the west of Scotland. Just because a bunch of late comers don't like it, doesn't change it from being the truth.

The two region Tier 5 set up at the time of its creation was balanced. When it started all 18 Highland League clubs and the EoS/SoS/Juniors/Amateurs were in single digits. Now that there will be a  more licenced clubs in the South of Tay area the two region set up will likely be looked at once again, but only for those already in the pyramid. There won't be another case of open applications for tier 5.

Also any changes to the SPFL/HL/LL agreement between Tier 4/5 is likely to be dictated by any restructuring that the SPFL does when it signs its new TV deal, not the whims of the SJFA.

[Khufu2]

7 minutes ago, cmontheloknow said:

Cmon that's not true.

If Clyde get relegated at the end of this season the go into the LL. The LL contains EKFC and Cumbernauld Colts who are well within the 'West' area. The only side that are 'South' specifically are Dalbeattie Star - Gretna are affiliated to the EoS. BSC slightly anomalous in that they started off in Glasgow and have ended up - with a squad of ex Juniors - playing in Alloa which falls into East territory, just.

The LL is a league with an East bias but that's just the way it has developed. Just as the West Super Premier at times has resembled an Ayrshire league with invited Glasgow clubs - 9-3 was it not a year or so back? 8/4 from memory now. 

Do you think a having a single Lowland League and the Highland League is a fair division of tier 5 clubs, given the population and number of clubs in the two areas? Of course it isn't.

[Ginaro]

1 hour ago, Vollyman said:

Four of the clubs joining the EOS finished below Armadale this season. We are negative towards a system that allows clubs who have not earned the right to be introduced to tier 6 of the pyramid. While admitting the SJFA have mismanaged the situation the SFA has made a farce of the Pyramid system.

How do you earn the right to be introduced to tier 6 in your mind - win the East Superleague?

Clubs in the Junior pyramid are all equal with respect to the SFA pyramid - each have the same right as each other to leave the Juniors.

And it works the same the other way about. If an EoS team like Leith Athletic wanted to join the East Juniors pyramid they would be told to start in the East South Division. If an SJFA team like Linlithgow wants to join the SFA pyramid they will be told to start in the lowest tier, the EoS.

[Ginaro]

3 minutes ago, Khufu2 said:

Do you think a having a single Lowland League and the Highland League is a fair division of tier 5 clubs, given the population and number of clubs in the two areas? Of course it isn't.

I think 3 (or perhaps even 4) regions is better than a HL/LL split, but tier 5 must all be licensed so until that happens nothing will change.

[LongTimeLurker]

39 minutes ago, kefc said:

Why would it have to be an “SJFA” Superleague serving the West? ...

Because that's the only way for the SJFA to maintain its relevance in the years ahead. If the west region do it unilaterally as a separate block of clubs, Tom Johnston would soon be out of a job. If the SJFA had engaged with the process five  years ago odds on they could have controlled everything below tier 5, but they didn't and if/when their relevance in the east LL feeder zone has been lost as is looking increasingly likely, the obvious next step is that the north region and the Tayside clubs hook up with the HL and the west region hooks up with the LL leaving nothing for the SJFA to do.

Edited May 26, 2018 by LongTimeLurker

[Khufu2]

3 minutes ago, Ginaro said:

How do you earn the right to be introduced to tier 6 in your mind - win the East Superleague?

Clubs in the Junior pyramid are all equal with respect to the SFA pyramid - each have the same right as each other to leave the Juniors.

And it works the same the other way about. If an EoS team like Leith Athletic wanted to join the East Juniors pyramid they would be told to start in the East South Division. If an SJFA team like Linlithgow wants to join the SFA pyramid they will be told to start in the lowest tier, the EoS.

I think the east juniors is a lost cause now.  The few remaining dissenters in Fife,East Lothian and Midlothian will join the EoS in 2019-20. The Tayside clubs with form a Tayside  competition and will probably become part of the north structure.  I think the remaining West Lothian clubs will probably join the West structure.  The eastern/southern part of the pyramid will be complete- LL-EOS/SOS. The western part is a blank sheet. Since virtually every club in the west is a junior club then it makes sense for the western Step 5/6 divisions be administered by the SJFA. The structure is already there. All tier 5 rules would have to be observed of course. Just as the Lowland League clubs were given time to prepare for licensing the same should happen the west.

[FairWeatherFan]

11 minutes ago, Khufu2 said:

Do you think a having a single Lowland League and the Highland League is a fair division of tier 5 clubs, given the population and number of clubs in the two areas? Of course it isn't.

Right now population can't be an argument. If it was then when Scotland had 3 professional rugby clubs one of them wouldn't have been from the Borders. It's about clubs actually in the pyramid and ultimately licenced for Tier 5. Right now the official numbers for those clubs outwith the SPFL are

20 North of the Tay

27 South of the Tay

In the next year that will dramatically change as those joining the pyramid have intentions of getting licenced for the most part. I saw someone speculate that Bonnyrigg are offering less money next year, while that was used as a stick to beat the EoS because they would have less money than in the Juniors. But if its true it might be because their channelling funds into getting their licence as soon as possible.

When there are more licenced clubs the 2 region split at Tier 5 will be addressed.

[GordonS]

13 hours ago, bravehearts dad said:

Last season big Scottish Cup Bonnyrigg Rose 2 Cove Rangers 1. And Cove were Highland League Champions and I can assur you well beaten on the day.

And when Bonnyrigg get their licence they'll be in it every year. When they finish in the top 4 of the LL they'll get into the Challenge Cup, and when they win the LL they'll get into the league cup. It's nuts that clubs inferior to Bonnyrigg get these things while big Junior clubs exclude themselves.

[Dev]

http://nonleaguematters.co.uk/forum/gforum.cgi?do=post_view_flat;post=859775;page=7;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;mh=25;session=89687484a344110aca98c889132318a9

Go West!
Stand by for Linlithgow and Bo'ness announcing they are hoping to leave the East Juniors - but not for the East of Scotland League.
Maybe Fauldhouse, Armadale and Whitburn could join them.
Makes sense if they want to remain Junior. Could be ratified at SJFA AGM.

#TJsSuperDooperLeague

 

Reply:

Well this would certainly be better for these two clubs than playing in a much weakened East Region Juniors' Super League. They're not far from Glasgow after all. It would also give them an alternative route into the Pyramid, as put forward by the SJFA.


How would any others remaining in the East Region Juniors cope with the extra travelling, loss of players, etc involved if they, also, decided to switch to the West Region? Or is it just big clubs switching to a #TJsSuperDooperLeague ?


There again, why would less ambitious clubs, wanting to remain Juniors, switch to the West when the SJFA states that the #TJsSuperDooperLeague will be at Tier 5, or is it Tier 6?


Shame about most of remaining clubs, outside those which you mention, in the East Region Juniors. "A ball of confusion" for them. Wonder what they will do now?? There's still time to switch to the Seniors in the EoS. I bet the EoS is grateful that this has leaked out before their dead-line for late applications!


Do you believe that this will go down well with the grassroots support at the clubs mentioned?


What will the big juniors clubs from Ayrshire make of it?


Could this now trigger the next wave of departures from the SJFA? West of Scotland League for 2018/19?


Interesting times.

[never been to scotland]

Would they not need to start at the bottom? Who in the West would voluntarily let them slot in above them?

[Khufu2]

6 minutes ago, never been to scotland said:

Would they not need to start at the bottom? Who in the West would voluntarily let them slot in above them?

If you create a league with the intention of acquiring tier 5 status you choose the clubs who will make up the division on the basis of their commitment to licensing etc.  

[FairWeatherFan]

5 minutes ago, never been to scotland said:

Would they not need to start at the bottom? Who in the West would voluntarily let them slot in above them?

I don't think it's about the West Region but purely the SJFA. It reminds me of the FAW setting up the League of Wales in the 90s. All the FAW essentially did was run the National Cup and the National Team and they got worried that the National team would get taken away with the Home Nations becoming a single FA. So they set up the League of Wales to so that they were a proper FA with a real national footballing structure.

This is the SJFA basically doing the same thing. They only run the Cup and National Team, the leagues are run by the individual regions. They set up the Super Dooper League to justify its existence.

[Bad Wolf]

I've been reading this thread for weeks, mostly in agreement with the pro-pyramid posters, and in disagreement with the knuckle-draggers, the most egregious of whom should IMO stay banned for good. But anyway, Godwin's Law-breakers aside, this idea still being propagated by people who may possibly have opposable thumbs, and at least know how to switch the caplocks key off, that the Lowland League excludes the west is such utter nonsense that I've finally felt the urge to sign up and post on the subject. The Lowland League does precisely what it intended to do - provide a tier 5 league below the SPFL, south of the Tay. The fact that no WoS junior club wished to join when they had the opportunity is their loss, and only theirs. There are of course WoS clubs in the LL right now, but they don't seem to count in the eyes of inbred yokels from the county that time forgot, which I'm happy to say I escaped from myself in 1984. As to what happens next, I wish to see a functioning pyramid, with more promotion and relegation places from the SPFL, and, like many others, a more equitable regionalised  tier 6 and 7.  Which, it seems to me, are now at last on their way, I reckon things will look very different and indeed better in perhaps 5 years time.

Edited May 26, 2018 by Bad Wolf

[Sergeant Wilson]

3 hours ago, daleboy1969 said:

Try reading posts . 

21st century in your opinion .

You guys are like the third reich.  

I'll certainly avoid getting the train to any EoS games.

[Super Saddler]

The superdooper league sounds pretty much what the WofSL should be. If Linlithgow and Boness feel that they should be part of that so be it. Why the SJFA  needs to be involved I have no idea. Once part of a pyramid surely the term junior becomes irrelevant and perhaps even divisive. 

[Vollyman]

Staunch is the correct word to use anyway.[emoji4]

I bet your scared to say that to Scott Dalziel[emoji1]

[energyzone]

I've been reading this thread for weeks, mostly in agreement with the pro-pyramid posters, and in disagreement with the knuckle-draggers, the most egregious of whom should IMO stay banned for good. But anyway, Godwin's Law-breakers aside, this idea still being propagated by people who may possibly have opposable thumbs, and at least know how to switch the caplocks key off, that the Lowland League excludes the west is such utter nonsense that I've finally felt the urge to sign up and post on the subject. The Lowland League does precisely what it intended to do - provide a tier 5 league below the SPFL, south of the Tay. The fact that no WoS junior club wished to join when they had the opportunity is their loss, and only theirs. There are of course WoS clubs in the LL right now, but they don't seem to count in the eyes of inbred yokels from the county that time forgot, which I'm happy to say I escaped from myself in 1984. As to what happens next, I wish to see a functioning pyramid, with more promotion and relegation places from the SPFL, and, like many others, a more equitable regionalised  tier 6 and 7.  Which, it seems to me, are now at last on their way, I reckon things will look very different and indeed better in perhaps 5 years time.

Me too, although somehow, someway I've managed to make this argument without resorting to cheap insults with those I disagree with.

"Knuckle draggers"
"Inbred yokels"

Classless.

[Enigma]

Bo’ness and Linlithgow can join the super-super league all they like but when the others bugger off for a WOS league they should be told to join the back of the EOSL queue. West Lothian is in the east, we can’t have teams just deciding what region they would like to be in.

[kenny131]

5 minutes ago, energyzone said:

Me too, although somehow, someway I've managed to make this argument without resorting to cheap insults with those I disagree with.

"Knuckle draggers"
"Inbred yokels"

Classless.

You must be a Talbot supporter offended by everything