Junior football, what is the future?

[Guest]

I’m only saying that the cup is one which any team would love to have. It’s nothing to do with living in the past. [emoji849]

I know, sorry I was being.....well you know the rest [emoji85]

[Peasyman]

You've not read all of this from the start, have you?
Nobody's going to stay in a WRSJFA.
All clubs are moving together into the new WOSL and retaining SJFA membership.
His preference was for a split between the clubs with some going and some staying would have been disastrous for the SJFA as it would have been made up of smaller and weaker teams that would not survive and eventually lead to the SJFA folding.

And you know that all clubs are moving, how?

[Bestsinceslicebread]

3 hours ago, Mystic Blastie said:

Not sure what's ruffled your feathers. I am actually all for the Pyramid structure and have been for years. All I was pointing out was we should all be classed as Scottish Football teams not Senior or Junior. What I do object to on here is the cowardly personal abuse meted out by people who would never utter any of the accusations of being a liar or whatever face to face with the person they are accusing.

Sent from my PRA-LX1 using Pie and Bovril mobile app
 

Pmsl, no one ruffled my feathers I just know your not interested in an general debate on this thread, your just on to windup or try to distract the thread.
 

Your for the juniors and don't really care about anything else. That's your prerogative and that's fine just be open about it. But to say there's no senior teams, honestly do you know how utter stupid that statement is. Any team joining the pyramid is joining the senior ranks and will no longer be at the level they were whether that was Amateur, Junior or Youth Club etc..

Its quite easy to look at posts on here with the stuff you've said to people to get a reaction. I've been on for years, well known and never make personal abuse' to anyone, my conclusion is that you re on a for a windup. There are people who come on here to debate, put their views across and others give their views of their points and the general discussion, some get out of hand and some take personal which is silly. We should always come out with an objective mind and the reasoning why we have came to our conclusion. You my friend have openly admitted that you were bored on a train and wanted reactions.

I don't give personal abuses, I call it the way I see it. I've generally got no interest in what you have to say regarding this thread, seriously and if I'm like that with anyone on here then it means your not on here for the purpose of what others are on for.

This is a great thread, very interesting and quite a lot of offshoots about different sections of the pyramid and the juniors and has been a great addition to P&B but guys like you who sit on trains to come on and windup ruin the thread in parts so on a personal level that's why I would have no time for guys like you.

[honestly united]

Just as an aside, and to tie in a few loose ends in terms of numbers in the Scottish Cup, fixture backlogs etc could the following not be a decent solution if bye in could be achieved

All clubs in the South as well as league play in the South Challenge Cup plus their own league cup

All licensed teams play in the Scottish Cup

Scrap the Alex Jack cup in the east and the equivalent for SoS teams, and all unlicensed teams play in the Junior Cup with the winner (along with any unlicensed eos, wos or sos (plus any other senior league below HL) league winners) are the only teams that gain entry to the Scottish Cup.

teams that want to get a license and progress have the Scottish cup to play in, those that dont still have the Junior cup and a chance to enter the Scottish the year after it. Junior cup games played on the same dates as Scottish Cup Prelims onwards so no clash of dates. Open to any unlicensed teams so include NCL, North & East Juniors, SoS, EoS and WoS (if moved over intact)

No extra dates, everyones happy 

[Guest]

Just as an aside, and to tie in a few loose ends in terms of numbers in the Scottish Cup, fixture backlogs etc could the following not be a decent solution if bye in could be achieved
All clubs in the South as well as league play in the South Challenge Cup plus their own league cup
All licensed teams play in the Scottish Cup
Scrap the Alex Jack cup in the east and the equivalent for SoS teams, and all unlicensed teams play in the Junior Cup with the winner (along with any unlicensed eos, wos or sos (plus any other senior league below HL) league winners) are the only teams that gain entry to the Scottish Cup.
teams that want to get a license and progress have the Scottish cup to play in, those that dont still have the Junior cup and a chance to enter the Scottish the year after it. Junior cup games played on the same dates as Scottish Cup Prelims onwards so no clash of dates. Open to any unlicensed teams so include NCL, North & East Juniors, SoS, EoS and WoS (if moved over intact)
No extra dates, everyones happy 

An all in cup yes. Naming it the junior cup, not for me.

[Stag Nation]

37 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

I'm not say don't them have it. I'm saying it's pointless if you are going to be able to still compete in the cup.

On a tangent the SJFA should be removed from the SFA Non-Professional Game Board if it stops have anything to do with the running of leagues and devolves into just a cup competition. 

Won't it still have the North Juniors, plus any junior leagues that evolve from Tayside and West Lothian?

[Bestsinceslicebread]

4 minutes ago, honestly united said:

Just as an aside, and to tie in a few loose ends in terms of numbers in the Scottish Cup, fixture backlogs etc could the following not be a decent solution if bye in could be achieved

All clubs in the South as well as league play in the South Challenge Cup plus their own league cup

All licensed teams play in the Scottish Cup

Scrap the Alex Jack cup in the east and the equivalent for SoS teams, and all unlicensed teams play in the Junior Cup with the winner (along with any unlicensed eos, wos or sos (plus any other senior league below HL) league winners) are the only teams that gain entry to the Scottish Cup.

teams that want to get a license and progress have the Scottish cup to play in, those that dont still have the Junior cup and a chance to enter the Scottish the year after it. Junior cup games played on the same dates as Scottish Cup Prelims onwards so no clash of dates. Open to any unlicensed teams so include NCL, North & East Juniors, SoS, EoS and WoS (if moved over intact)

No extra dates, everyones happy 

With Honestly United post made me think.
How many cups in general do the clubs compete in
The SOS league, The EOS league
The Lowland League
The Highland league and which ones interconnect ?

Also regarding the south challenge cup do teams in the lowland participate in the South Challenge as well as the Main Scottish cup

[8MileBU]

Fucking hell. This actually just happened [emoji38]

[Guest]

Maybe showing they can run a cup competition just fine [emoji12]

Fucking hell. This actually just happened [emoji38]

[gaz5]

For me, the biggest issue with the Junior Cup bring retained as a single non league trophy is that to enter it, you would have to pay into the SJFA, either for cup entry or "membership" which includes cup entry.

As I've said before, given the vitriol that has consistently come from the SJFA towards the LL, The EoS, all of the club's who left, including Clydebank who were treated in a way which could have had serious repercussions for them, how many non league teams from those leagues would enter it/pay money to the SJFA?

I think you might find you end up with not much more than you have now, potentially less in terms of club's joining with the remaining ERSJFA club's clearly being further disenfranchised by the SJFA.

I just don't see it playing out as the Junior Cup doing anything other than fading into obscurity.

[FairWeatherFan]

31 minutes ago, Stag Nation said:

Won't it still have the North Juniors, plus any junior leagues that evolve from Tayside and West Lothian?

Can it continue to provide that role for leagues if it loses half of its budget and operate a further streamlined cup competition?

The argument it gave in pwg meetings was that it needs to retain the likes of fines in order to maintain running discipline for its leagues.

[FairWeatherFan]

44 minutes ago, Bestsinceslicebread said:

With Honestly United post made me think.
How many cups in general do the clubs compete in
The SOS league, The EOS league
The Lowland League
The Highland league and which ones interconnect ?

Also regarding the south challenge cup do teams in the lowland participate in the South Challenge as well as the Main Scottish cup

Lowland: Scottish Cup, SCC, LL cup (+some other regional cups depending on members. Qualifying Cup, Southern Counties, Fife FA. Also top 4 compete in SPFL Challenge Cup and League champion/relegated Club 42 enter SPFL League Cup)

EoS: Scottish Cup for licence holders/Alex Jack Cup for unlicenced, SCC, Qualifying Cup (some qualify to the City Cup), League Cup, non-Premier  teams in the King Cup. (+ for some Fife Cup.

SoS: Scottish Cup for licence holders/ Alba Cup for unlicenced. SCC, Southern Counties, League Cup, then there's Potts, Tweedie & Cree lodge cups but aren't contested every year necessarily.

Highland: Scottish Cup, League Cup then the North of Scotland Cup for those North of Scotland and the Aberdeenshire Cup & Aberdeenshire Shield for those in the Grampian area.

Edited March 17, 2020 by FairWeatherFan

[Stag Nation]

6 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

Can it continue to provide that role for leagues if it loses half of its budget and operate a further streamlined cup competition?

The argument it gave in pwg meetings was that it needs to retain the likes of fines in order to maintain running discipline for its leagues.

Turning the question round, would the leagues need the SJFA?

I'm sure a 10- or 12-team West Lothian league could easily administer its own discipline, at no cost and without fines. And without contributing to TJ's salary.

[FairWeatherFan]

1 minute ago, Stag Nation said:

Turning the question round, would the leagues need the SJFA?

I'm sure a 10- or 12-team West Lothian league could easily administer its own discipline, at no cost and without fines. And without contributing to TJ's salary.

That's why I'm saying the SJFA at that point doesn't deserve a place on the NPGB if it only runs a cup.

[Jerry Macguire]

2 hours ago, Dev said:

That's right. For example, the SJFA doesn't have any affiliated leagues, doesn't have any rules and regulations, doesn't have any influence whatsoever over the running and decision making of affiliated leagues, all of the leagues have always been entirely well run and democratic, they have always set a fine example, the SJFA and the affiliated leagues have been totally pro-active towards the setting up of the pyramid for nearly 20 years, they have never been shown to be untrustworthy and or unreliable with regard to the pyramid. Really?   

Sorry Dev. I'm not sure I understand your point. The WoSFL won't be run by the WRJFA. It will be run by a committee or board voted for by the clubs in a similar way to the LL, EoS & SoS league's. I would in  the initial phase expect they will be guided by the LL as the familiarise themselves with protocols and procedures. If I've misunderstood you I apologise. 

Edited March 17, 2020 by Jerry Macguire

[Mystic Blastie]

Pmsl, no one ruffled my feathers I just know your not interested in an general debate on this thread, your just on to windup or try to distract the thread.
 
Your for the juniors and don't really care about anything else. That's your prerogative and that's fine just be open about it. But to say there's no senior teams, honestly do you know how utter stupid that statement is. Any team joining the pyramid is joining the senior ranks and will no longer be at the level they were whether that was Amateur, Junior or Youth Club etc..
Its quite easy to look at posts on here with the stuff you've said to people to get a reaction. I've been on for years, well known and never make personal abuse' to anyone, my conclusion is that you re on a for a windup. There are people who come on here to debate, put their views across and others give their views of their points and the general discussion, some get out of hand and some take personal which is silly. We should always come out with an objective mind and the reasoning why we have came to our conclusion. You my friend have openly admitted that you were bored on a train and wanted reactions.
I don't give personal abuses, I call it the way I see it. I've generally got no interest in what you have to say regarding this thread, seriously and if I'm like that with anyone on here then it means your not on here for the purpose of what others are on for.
This is a great thread, very interesting and quite a lot of offshoots about different sections of the pyramid and the juniors and has been a great addition to P&B but guys like you who sit on trains to come on and windup ruin the thread in parts so on a personal level that's why I would have no time for guys like you.

All I'm saying is that the titles Senior and Junior came about because of the 2 separate levels of football created whenever. So if they all come under one banner now there is no reason for any reference to Senior or Junior football. How that makes me a pesky Joonyur rebel rouser I have no idea. I will say it again. I am 100% behind the Pyramid and want all Junior clubs from all over Scotland to be part of it if they wish. I don't care either way if the SJFA exists afterwards or not. I totally disagree with the personal abuse bandied about on here whether it is directed at SJFA, LL or SFA personnel. What is so bad about that?

Sent from my PRA-LX1 using Pie and Bovril mobile app

[Bestsinceslicebread]

2 hours ago, Bestsinceslicebread said:

Pmsl, no one ruffled my feathers I just know your not interested in an general debate on this thread, your just on to windup or try to distract the thread.
 

Your for the juniors and don't really care about anything else. That's your prerogative and that's fine just be open about it. But to say there's no senior teams, honestly do you know how utter stupid that statement is. Any team joining the pyramid is joining the senior ranks and will no longer be at the level they were whether that was Amateur, Junior or Youth Club etc..

Its quite easy to look at posts on here with the stuff you've said to people to get a reaction. I've been on for years, well known and never make personal abuse' to anyone, my conclusion is that you re on a for a windup. There are people who come on here to debate, put their views across and others give their views of their points and the general discussion, some get out of hand and some take personal which is silly. We should always come out with an objective mind and the reasoning why we have came to our conclusion. You my friend have openly admitted that you were bored on a train and wanted reactions.

I don't give personal abuses, I call it the way I see it. I've generally got no interest in what you have to say regarding this thread, seriously and if I'm like that with anyone on here then it means your not on here for the purpose of what others are on for.

This is a great thread, very interesting and quite a lot of offshoots about different sections of the pyramid and the juniors and has been a great addition to P&B but guys like you who sit on trains to come on and windup ruin the thread in parts so on a personal level that's why I would have no time for guys like you.

5 minutes ago, Mystic Blastie said:

All I'm saying is that the titles Senior and Junior came about because of the 2 separate levels of football created whenever. So if they all come under one banner now there is no reason for any reference to Senior or Junior football. How that makes me a pesky Joonyur rebel rouser I have no idea. I will say it again. I am 100% behind the Pyramid and want all Junior clubs from all over Scotland to be part of it if they wish. I don't care either way if the SJFA exists afterwards or not. I totally disagree with the personal abuse bandied about on here whether it is directed at SJFA, LL or SFA personnel. What is so bad about that?

 

As I said, you openly admit to what you want on this, boredom sitting on a train, that's why I have no interest in peoples like yourself, trying to put a twist on things, factually your posts tell the same story

The sperate levels were created because there was a league, senior league with SFA members and then the juniors started because they were teams who were not members or did not want to be members and then after a few seasons of isolation and friendly games against each other,  a junior league was started. Allegedly a lower level from the seniors, that's all it was.

Its factual, clubs now are leaving different levels of football to join the senior / pyramid ranks because they are progressive and want to try their luck and see how far they can get. But I will add, some clubs are joining as they feel their have no choice because their neighbours are leaving. So I see your comment about no junior or senior is just, how can I put it, to get a reaction and personally I don't mind replying in the way I have to put it straight, well my view of it. And to be honest, no matter how you spin it, my view actually wont change 

I am of respect if a club does not want to join the pyramid system then don't. There are many junior clubs who do not want to join it for different reasons but many because they want to stay junior so you wont get everyone in the pyramid if they have their way, so personally I'm in agreement with them, I'd rather the Scottish junior association stay were they are and if any junior team wants to leave then they should do so and apply for the pyramid, over the years I will expect more junior teams to follow.
 

I'm speaking from a junior background and I do not want the junior association joined to the pyramid in any way, shape or form. I can only see problems of this in the future if they do. The antics of certain members of the junior associations and chairmen of junior clubs on their online medium and also things said to chairmen and committee members at meetings including stating to them that the LL and SPFL are backing the juniors in option Z make me 100% with the same view that I don't want them anywhere ear the pyramid.  The reason, My View, is that for the past few years nothing has happened with junior teams all joining the pyramid because the members of the junior association were all power struggling. The leagues EOS, SOS and LL all said the West region could join, but the junior association didn't want this because they wanted the East juniors in at the level the juniors wanted and thus were are still in the situation right now where the SFA walked away from the PWG and the LL.EOS and the SOS decided to start a new WOS by themselves. and with that being threated with league action from the junior association and they they wanted their own west region to go in separately instead pf the new WOS run by the LL, .EOS and SOS.

As I said I'm junior through and through and I'm totally embarrassed at all these antics and that's the reason many have turned away from the authority of the junior association.

 

Hey that's my take on your comments and my own views o the junior association power men 

 

 

 

 

[Doonhamer1969]

On 14/03/2020 at 14:08, clash city rocker said:

Gordon Ronney mentioned the East junior clubs quite a lot during the meeting a was at. How those moving across had left those not wishing to isolated and neglected. He didn't want that to happen in West. I was at the meeting really only interested in future progress of my own club but Ronney was adamant all clubs are equal and if clubs refused to move something had to be in place for them to exist under as Juniors.

If they didn't want to feel 'isolated and neglected' they had a simple choice.

Join the EoS.

100% their CHOICE.

Free will.

[Doonhamer1969]

On 14/03/2020 at 14:29, G4Mac said:

I dont think it's as simple as getting knickers in a twist to be honest.

I can only speak for myself, I am delighted to see wrsjfa clubs involved in the pyramid, it has been a penalty kick for long enough and had to happen.

My concern lies in the terminology being used regarding 'protecting the grade' and 'saving the grade' and 'not leaving anyone behind'. It makes me believe there is a toxic undercurrent to the proposals being put forward. To say that the clubs who joined the eosfl left their peers behind portions blame and ensures that ill feeling continues towards the pyramid. Incidentally the thing the wrsjfa are now trying to join.

To then say we will join the pyramid but here are our terms ( including keeping our own cup) isnt really in the spirit of joining something new and committing to it. Also using language like 'no club left behind' doesnt fill me with confidence there arent alterior motives either.

All I can say is I am glad my club plays in the eosfl and isnt part of what I regard as a messy start to the new wosfl. I'm not convinced the wrsjfa or sjfa have the best interests of all clubs in the pyramid at heart but, as I say, that will undoubtedly either be proven correct or wrong in future years.

^This 

[Doonhamer1969]

On 14/03/2020 at 14:57, Jack Burton said:

You are right shouldn't have said the conferences are a farce but having 5 to 10 clubs join the EOS every season is.

We can avoid that situation in the West by having everyone come over at once.

Nothing farcical about it.

Choice.

Choose to join the EoS or choose to stay junior.

Each club does what suits it best.

'All in' from the West is utterly farcical.

We know for a FACT that not all 63 WJ clubs want to join the WoSL.

48 initial Notes of Interest proves that beyond any doubt.

So some clubs will be reluctant members, having been dragged kicking and screaming.

I.e., no choice.

Edited March 18, 2020 by Doonhamer1969
Typo