AsimButtHitsASix Posted March 16, 2020 Share Posted March 16, 2020 8 minutes ago, Burnie_man said: I think what you have written and concluded is wrong, and there is pages and pages worth of debate on here for you to understand why. Yes there are thousands of pages. I, nor anyone else, is going to go back and read every single post to deduce what you disagree with in amongst your snide comments to anyone who dare disagree with you. So, humour me please, can you surmise what parts of the agreement, as I understand it, you take particular issue with? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnie_man Posted March 16, 2020 Author Share Posted March 16, 2020 1 minute ago, AsimButtHitsASix said: Yes there are thousands of pages. I, nor anyone else, is going to go back and read every single post to deduce what you disagree with in amongst your snide comments to anyone who dare disagree with you. So, humour me please, can you surmise what parts of the agreement, as I understand it, you take particular issue with? My comments are now "snide"? thanks, but I won't bother going any further if that is your level of debate. -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dev Posted March 16, 2020 Share Posted March 16, 2020 Possible Grounds For Optimism in the west? Strathclyde Uni sharing with Renfrew. Could both/either be thinking of the WoS? Up-grades in process at their ground. From NLS web site this Tweet: Alan Calderwood MCBC @centralmorrison Great to see the fence erected @RenfrewFC - a great community partnership with @Glasgow_Clyde and one we are delighted to have helped to facilitate with our fellow community partners @UniStrathclyde #construction #constructioninthecommunity #morrisonconstruction #renfrewjuniors 11:46 am · 16 Mar 2020 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnie_man Posted March 16, 2020 Author Share Posted March 16, 2020 Strathclyde Uni have not registered an interest (as of last week) in the WoSFL. -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsimButtHitsASix Posted March 16, 2020 Share Posted March 16, 2020 10 minutes ago, Burnie_man said: My comments are now "snide"? thanks, but I won't bother going any further if that is your level of debate. You haven't begun debating. Just bleated about people calling you names whilst remaining miraculously unaware of the irony of it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnie_man Posted March 16, 2020 Author Share Posted March 16, 2020 3 minutes ago, AsimButtHitsASix said: You haven't begun debating. Just bleated about people calling you names whilst remaining miraculously unaware of the irony of it. Irony? try and calm yourself. -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsimButtHitsASix Posted March 16, 2020 Share Posted March 16, 2020 5 minutes ago, Burnie_man said: Irony? try and calm yourself. Try and answer the very simple question asked of you 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 16, 2020 Share Posted March 16, 2020 Yes there are thousands of pages. I, nor anyone else, is going to go back and read every single post to deduce what you disagree with in amongst your snide comments to anyone who dare disagree with you. So, humour me please, can you surmise what parts of the agreement, as I understand it, you take particular issue with?Can I answer?If so, here goes.....I hope the west comes on board, always have. It's a great move forward. I am left uncomfortable with the language being used by those negotiating related to saving a grade and no one left behind. This makes me believe that if the wrsjfa or sjfa have any involvement in running the new league they will not do it in a manner becoming.I am also left uncomfortable with the wrsjfa agreeing to join en masse but here are our terms for doing so, it feels like they think they are doing the LL, sos and eos a favour. (may simply be my cynical/pessimistic view)I hope that it all works out but the fact it doesnt look like a fresh start fills me with dread.I hope for a new wosfl, led by a new committee, free from previous influences. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glensmad Posted March 16, 2020 Share Posted March 16, 2020 12 minutes ago, G4Mac said: I hope for a new wosfl, led by a new committee, free from previous influences. I understand that is still the LL's intention. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PastyMan Posted March 16, 2020 Share Posted March 16, 2020 7 minutes ago, G4Mac said: Can I answer? If so, here goes..... I hope the west comes on board, always have. It's a great move forward. I am left uncomfortable with the language being used by those negotiating related to saving a grade and no one left behind. This makes me believe that if the wrsjfa or sjfa have any involvement in running the new league they will not do it in a manner becoming. I am also left uncomfortable with the wrsjfa agreeing to join en masse but here are our terms for doing so, it feels like they think they are doing the LL, sos and eos a favour. (may simply be my cynical/pessimistic view) I hope that it all works out but the fact it doesnt look like a fresh start fills me with dread. I hope for a new wosfl, led by a new committee, free from previous influences. Fair do's. I can understand that but I do accept AsimButt (RIP smashing player) summary. In negotiations it's wise to view things from the other side too. Throughout the debate the Junior Cup has been the touchstone for the Juniors. To continue with a cup competition taking 4th place behind the league, Scottish Cup and SCC then it seems to me reasonable to offer a handshake on that. I can appreciate your other concerns but from my point of view the WRJFA clubs moving in to the pyramid wipes away so many of the antiquated and parochial elements of the Junior game that there isn't really a way back in practice. The LL have won here with their WoSL. It's game over. The Junior Cup is a worthwhile gesture for a more contented move across. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bestsinceslicebread Posted March 16, 2020 Share Posted March 16, 2020 (edited) On 16/03/2020 at 15:31, G4Mac said: Can I answer? If so, here goes..... I hope the west comes on board, always have. It's a great move forward. I am left uncomfortable with the language being used by those negotiating related to saving a grade and no one left behind. This makes me believe that if the wrsjfa or sjfa have any involvement in running the new league they will not do it in a manner becoming. I am also left uncomfortable with the wrsjfa agreeing to join en masse but here are our terms for doing so, it feels like they think they are doing the LL, sos and eos a favour. (may simply be my cynical/pessimistic view) I hope that it all works out but the fact it doesnt look like a fresh start fills me with dread. I hope for a new wosfl, led by a new committee, free from previous influences. I've not been on for a few days but G4Mac your hitting the nail on the head dead center. What worries me is the attitude, if your a junior team and leaving to join the pyramid then ffs you are no longer a junior team, you are now becoming a senior team. Your illustrious history when junior is that you were a junior team and the history should be heralded but that's it. Also to add to this, would there be repercussions for Clydebank and Kilwinning if the West region juniors joined en-mass, I'm meaning with the involvement of Junior committee men, and not think both clubs would feel comfortable about that as they both are the leader sin leaving Edited March 18, 2020 by Bestsinceslicebread Adding Last paraghraph 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsimButtHitsASix Posted March 16, 2020 Share Posted March 16, 2020 6 minutes ago, G4Mac said: Can I answer? If so, here goes..... I hope the west comes on board, always have. It's a great move forward. I am left uncomfortable with the language being used by those negotiating related to saving a grade and no one left behind. This makes me believe that if the wrsjfa or sjfa have any involvement in running the new league they will not do it in a manner becoming. I am also left uncomfortable with the wrsjfa agreeing to join en masse but here are our terms for doing so, it feels like they think they are doing the LL, sos and eos a favour. (may simply be my cynical/pessimistic view) I hope that it all works out but the fact it doesnt look like a fresh start fills me with dread. I hope for a new wosfl, led by a new committee, free from previous influences. Regarding the language I think that's just a bit of spin surely. As everyone has been keen to point out on this thread for the longest time the "grade" means nothing. Is it not a bit hypocritical to say to junior fans their "grade" means nothing whilst also having misgivings about it being saved? It either means nothing to you or doesn't. It doesn't harm anyone if a few clubs keep a membership does it? I consider my own view of the WRJSFA to be cynical, like you, but for different reasons. To me it seems like a horrific climb down and their language is there to save face. The pyramid has been fine without them and they are aware a WoSFL will be fine without them and, eventually, lead to the death of the juniors entirely without their input. If they want to word it to keep them, and their members, feel like saviours let them. I don't let my niece know I can see how she does her shitey magic tricks and she goes away thinking she's Houdini. I do understand, and agree, with the concern about these useless Junior blazers running the league but, on the other hand, there will be folk on the league committee from out of the junior game and they'll be kept on a strict leash by the LL or they'll lose all the compromises they've bargained for. They know they're beat, they've accepted defeat but have a few trinkets to keep them happy and to save face. Although, having said that, I think a few folk from the West Juniors could surprise us all going forward if they're no longer shackled to the SJFA. There's a few folk who seemed like dinosaurs in the East who've proven valuable additions now they've switched. The West will be no different. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 16, 2020 Share Posted March 16, 2020 Regarding the language I think that's just a bit of spin surely. As everyone has been keen to point out on this thread for the longest time the "grade" means nothing. Is it not a bit hypocritical to say to junior fans their "grade" means nothing whilst also having misgivings about it being saved? It either means nothing to you or doesn't. It doesn't harm anyone if a few clubs keep a membership does it? I consider my own view of the WRJSFA to be cynical, like you, but for different reasons. To me it seems like a horrific climb down and their language is there to save face. The pyramid has been fine without them and they are aware a WoSFL will be fine without them and, eventually, lead to the death of the juniors entirely without their input. If they want to word it to keep them, and their members, feel like saviours let them. I don't let my niece know I can see how she does her shitey magic tricks and she goes away thinking she's Houdini. I do understand, and agree, with the concern about these useless Junior blazers running the league but, on the other hand, there will be folk on the league committee from out of the junior game and they'll be kept on a strict leash by the LL or they'll lose all the compromises they've bargained for. They know they're beat, they've accepted defeat but have a few trinkets to keep them happy and to save face. Although, having said that, I think a few folk from the West Juniors could surprise us all going forward if they're no longer shackled to the SJFA. There's a few folk who seemed like dinosaurs in the East who've proven valuable additions now they've switched. The West will be no different.Whilst I agree the that the wosfl is the most important thing, which is really good btw, I am overly cynical when it is anything sjfa related.Historically they have said and done 2 different things to fill their own ego/pockets.I hope it is different in this case, I truly do, but there is no better predictor of future behaviour than previous behaviour.I hope I am wrong, as I say, I'm a sjfa cynic and think they will do and say anything to stay relevant and may become difficult to deal with in the long term, if allowed too much leeway. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mystic Blastie Posted March 16, 2020 Share Posted March 16, 2020 I've not been on for a few days but G4Mac your hitting the nail on the head dead center. What worries me is the attitude, if your a junior team and leaving to join the pyramid then ffs you are no longer a junior team, you are now becoming a senior team. Your illustrious history when junior is that you were a junior team and the history should be heralded but that's itIf there are no Junior teams left then there are no Senior teams. Only teams!!! What would Senior teams be Senior to?? Sent from my PRA-LX1 using Pie and Bovril mobile app 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsimButtHitsASix Posted March 16, 2020 Share Posted March 16, 2020 7 minutes ago, Mystic Blastie said: If there are no Junior teams left then there are no Senior teams. Only teams!!! What would Senior teams be Senior to?? Sent from my PRA-LX1 using Pie and Bovril mobile app Whitburn 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnie_man Posted March 16, 2020 Author Share Posted March 16, 2020 35 minutes ago, G4Mac said: Whilst I agree the that the wosfl is the most important thing, which is really good btw, I am overly cynical when it is anything sjfa related. Historically they have said and done 2 different things to fill their own ego/pockets. I hope it is different in this case, I truly do, but there is no better predictor of future behaviour than previous behaviour. I hope I am wrong, as I say, I'm a sjfa cynic and think they will do and say anything to stay relevant and may become difficult to deal with in the long term, if allowed too much leeway. Spot on. I think it's worth pointing out that people who have dealt first hand with Junior officialdom for years have alarm bells ringing with things that on the face of it might be a reasonable compromise to those who haven't. When you have the SJFA's only full time employee phoning clubs demanding to know who that person is on P&B, and demanding them be banned, or demanding posts be removed etc then you're a little wary of those kind of people being involved with the Pyramid. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairWeatherFan Posted March 16, 2020 Share Posted March 16, 2020 Presumably you pay some sort of dues to be in the sjfa currently? Then there would be something to pay for being in the WOSFL? Or am I wrong in that thinking? I doubt clubs would do both considering how financially tight clubs tend to say they are. If the SJFA loses those fees, plus fines and reinstatements etc. Plus the streamlining of the Junior Cup. Can it even continue in its current administrative model? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmontheloknow Posted March 16, 2020 Share Posted March 16, 2020 3 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said: Presumably you pay some sort of dues to be in the sjfa currently? Then there would be something to pay for being in the WOSFL? Or am I wrong in that thinking? I doubt clubs would do both considering how financially tight clubs tend to say they are. If the SJFA loses those fees, plus fines and reinstatements etc. Plus the streamlining of the Junior Cup. Can it even continue in its current administrative model? Not being funny but are any of the present renumerated roles carried out jobsized and appraised? Not entirely sure VFM is in place at present! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stag Nation Posted March 16, 2020 Share Posted March 16, 2020 6 minutes ago, cmontheloknow said: Not being funny but are any of the present renumerated roles carried out jobsized and appraised? Not entirely sure VFM is in place at present! I suspect you know the answer! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornishman Posted March 16, 2020 Share Posted March 16, 2020 52 minutes ago, Mystic Blastie said: If there are no Junior teams left then there are no Senior teams. Only teams!!! What would Senior teams be Senior to?? Sent from my PRA-LX1 using Pie and Bovril mobile app Reserves & Amateurs basically ~ same as in England (ish!). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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