Junior football, what is the future?

[Doonhamer1969]

On 14/03/2020 at 14:58, Beenzon-Toste said:

There's no divide though.
All WRSJFA clubs have agreed to be part of the Pyramid.
You're the one trying to muddy the waters now that people have seen through your agenda of hatred towards TJ and the SJFA.
Get the feeder up and running with everyone on board and let's just wait and see how the cup situation unfolds. Those discussions can surely wait for another day.

'All WRSJFA clubs have agreed to be part of the Pyramid.'

Hogwash.

[Mystic Blastie]

You keep going back to me on the train. That was last Wednesday for goodness sake. How many posts and pages did you have to go back to reference this. Admittedly I had too much time to spare but my comments were in response to a catalogue of personal abuse to certain people. Never said it was you. I don't disagree with many of your points. I have no gripe with criticising SJFA and WJFA over many of the mistakes they have made but calling people liars and idiots on Social media is cowardly and will always speak out against this. If I have been guilty of any hypocrisy last week I apologise now. No excuse I know but a couple of beers had been had in order to unwind. You keep saying you have played and supported Junior football for a long time. Couldnae kick a fish supper myself but watched my team since I was knee high to a grasshopper. So think I have as much right to comment on here. Kind of resent being called a wind up merchant but I suppose I will survive the slur. Keep calm and remember to take suitable Coronavirus precautions...

 
As I said, you openly admit to what you want on this, boredom sitting on a train, that's why I have no interest in peoples like yourself, trying to put a twist on things, factually your posts tell the same story
The sperate levels were created because there was a league, senior league with SFA members and then the juniors started because they were teams who were not members or did not want to be members and then after a few seasons of isolation and friendly games against each other,  a junior league was started. Allegedly a lower level from the seniors, that's all it was.
Its factual, clubs now are leaving different levels of football to join the senior / pyramid ranks because they are progressive and want to try their luck and see how far they can get. But I will add, some clubs are joining as they feel their have no choice because their neighbours are leaving. So I see your comment about no junior or senior is just, how can I put it, to get a reaction and personally I don't mind replying in the way I have to put it straight, well my view of it. And to be honest, no matter how you spin it, my view actually wont change 
I am of respect if a club does not want to join the pyramid system then don't. There are many junior clubs who do not want to join it for different reasons but many because they want to stay junior so you wont get everyone in the pyramid if they have their way, so personally I'm in agreement with them, I'd rather the Scottish junior association stay were they are and if any junior team wants to leave then they should do so and apply for the pyramid, over the years I will expect more junior teams to follow.
 
I'm speaking from a junior background and I do not want the junior association joined to the pyramid in any way, shape or form. I can only see problems of this in the future if they do. The antics of certain members of the junior associations and chairmen of junior clubs on their online medium and also things said to chairmen and committee members at meetings including stating to them that the LL and SPFL are backing the juniors in option Z make me 100% with the same view that I don't want them anywhere ear the pyramid.  The reason, My View, is that for the past few years nothing has happened with junior teams all joining the pyramid because the members of the junior association were all power struggling. The leagues EOS, SOS and LL all said the West region could join, but the junior association didn't want this because they wanted the East juniors in at the level the juniors wanted and thus were are still in the situation right now where the SFA walked away from the PWG and the LL.EOS and the SOS decided to start a new WOS by themselves. and with that being threated with league action from the junior association and they they wanted their own west region to go in separately instead pf the new WOS run by the LL, .EOS and SOS.

As I said I'm junior through and through and I'm totally embarrassed at all these antics and that's the reason many have turned away from the authority of the junior association.
 
Hey that's my take on your comments and my own views o the junior association power men 
 
 
 
 

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[FairWeatherFan]

15 minutes ago, Doonhamer1969 said:

If they didn't want to feel 'isolated and neglected' they had a simple choice.

Join the EoS.

100% their CHOICE.

Free will.

And a choice those still in the East Region south of the Tay have made over multiple years + counting. They even restructured their leagues so they could stay junior rather than join the EoS

[Doonhamer1969]

2 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

And a choice those still in the East Region south of the Tay have made over multiple years + counting. They even restructured their leagues so they could stay junior rather than join the EoS

Exactly.

[Doonhamer1969]

9 hours ago, Beenzon-Toste said:

You've not read all of this from the start, have you?
Nobody's going to stay in a WRSJFA.
All clubs are moving together into the new WOSL and retaining SJFA membership.
His preference was for a split between the clubs with some going and some staying would have been disastrous for the SJFA as it would have been made up of smaller and weaker teams that would not survive and eventually lead to the SJFA folding.

I have read it all.

The point is choice.

The new WoS gives clubs in the West a choice between staying Junior or going to a Tier 6 pyramid league.

As is perfectly obvious to anyone following this thread for any length of time, some clubs in the West don't want to be in a senior pyramid league, and are indeed, in some cases, vehemently opposed to it.

The "All in' approach does not cater for the wishes of those clubs.

Would you want a reluctant member in any organisation you were a member of ?

Of course you wouldn't.

While I'm happy that the different parties have spoken to each other and PERHAPS reached some sort of compromise, its an utter dog's breakfast of a proposal that doesn't serve all clubs needs and leaves the majority imposing their will on the minority.

With the original WoS proposal, every single club in the West of Scotland had a choice which league to join or remain in.

Now they're choice is 'do what some others want' or go amateur.

Hobson springs to mind.

[Stag Nation]

6 minutes ago, Doonhamer1969 said:

I have read it all.

The point is choice.

The new WoS gives clubs in the West a choice between staying Junior or going to a Tier 6 pyramid league.

If the alleged compromise involves adopting the West Junior structure (possibly with some others slotted in), then for some clubs the choice may be between stayng Junior or going to Tier 9!

Or have I misunderstood?

[glensmad]

2 minutes ago, Stag Nation said:

If the alleged compromise involves adopting the West Junior structure (possibly with some others slotted in), then for some clubs the choice may be between stayng Junior or going to Tier 9!

Or have I misunderstood?

No club will be compelled to stay junior. Membership of the SJFA will be optional.

[Dev]

2 hours ago, Jerry Macguire said:

Sorry Dev. I'm not sure I understand your point. The WoSFL won't be run by the WRJFA. It will be run by a committee or board voted for by the clubs in a similar way to the LL, EoS & SoS league's. I would in  the initial phase expect they will be guided by the LL as the familiarise themselves with protocols and procedures. If I've misunderstood you I apologise. 

P&B is for opinions after all. At the end of the day we all have to wait and see what emerges.

[Guest]

No club will be compelled to stay junior. Membership of the SJFA will be optional.

Why have it as an option though glens. Why pay into something you get nothing out of? Why pay an association to run a small cup?

A fresh start. A new league. A new committee. New cups. Leaving old partnerships behind. Anything and everything else brings with it too many variables.

[Stag Nation]

14 minutes ago, glensmad said:

No club will be compelled to stay junior. Membership of the SJFA will be optional.

We were discussing the choice facing clubs, i.e. whether to join the new WoSFL or to remain in whatever is left of the junior league.  Do you believe that all will be compelled to move, with no choice?

[AsimButtHitsASix]

14 minutes ago, G4Mac said:

Why have it as an option though glens. Why pay into something you get nothing out of? Why pay an association to run a small cup?

A fresh start. A new league. A new committee. New cups. Leaving old partnerships behind. Anything and everything else brings with it too many variables.

They have all those things but, if they want to, can retain junior membership.

I don't see why that bothers anyone. It's that club's decision and doesn't make a difference to any other clubs

[Guest]

They have all those things but, if they want to, can retain junior membership.

I don't see why that bothers anyone. It's that club's decision and doesn't make a difference to any other clubs

If the sjfa or wrsjfa have anything to do with anything in the new league or pyramid it wont be a fresh start though. Their historical interactions with anything pyramid related determines that. I will say again, there is no better predictor of future behaviour than past behaviour.....

The sjfa and wrsjfa should have no part from here on. I wish I could trust them, I really do, but I believe they will stand in the way of any real progress once they have any involvement in anything to do with tbe pyramid.

[AsimButtHitsASix]

8 minutes ago, G4Mac said:

If the sjfa or wrsjfa have anything to do with anything in the new league or pyramid it wont be a fresh start though. Their historical interactions with anything pyramid related determines that. I will say again, there is no better predictor of future behaviour than past behaviour.....

People who were formerly involved with the ERJFA are now involved with the EoSFL... and, further to that, the EoSFL wasn't a "fresh start" either. The only fresh starts we've seen are the Lowland League and, now, the WoSFL. It is still a fresh start. It will just have some familiar faces but they're wont, and can't, do what they did in the Juniors. 

[FairWeatherFan]

40 minutes ago, AsimButtHitsASix said:

They have all those things but, if they want to, can retain junior membership.

I don't see why that bothers anyone. It's that club's decision and doesn't make a difference to any other clubs

At the moment the working theory on behalf of the WRJFA is that all of these changes to the SJFA rules will actually be applied. There's no guarantee of that happening right now as you've got the East Region and North Region to consider.

Flashback a month ago and the chat about the West Lothian clubs wanting to stay in the Juniors was that they fancied their chances at winning the Junior Cup once the West Region was gutted in the same way they had been.

[Guest]

People who were formerly involved with the ERJFA are now involved with the EoSFL... and, further to that, the EoSFL wasn't a "fresh start" either. The only fresh starts we've seen are the Lowland League and, now, the WoSFL. It is still a fresh start. It will just have some familiar faces but they're wont, and can't, do what they did in the Juniors. 

The ersjfa people moved over after year one, after a clearly defined operating structure, which had been in place for a number of years, was provided.

There is no such thing in place in the west. Given the wrsjfa president appears to be a save the grade guy, I'm filled with the fear.

[Bestsinceslicebread]

1 hour ago, Mystic Blastie said:

You keep going back to me on the train. That was last Wednesday for goodness sake. How many posts and pages did you have to go back to reference this. Admittedly I had too much time to spare but my comments were in response to a catalogue of personal abuse to certain people. Never said it was you. I don't disagree with many of your points. I have no gripe with criticising SJFA and WJFA over many of the mistakes they have made but calling people liars and idiots on Social media is cowardly and will always speak out against this. If I have been guilty of any hypocrisy last week I apologise now. No excuse I know but a couple of beers had been had in order to unwind. You keep saying you have played and supported Junior football for a long time. Couldnae kick a fish supper myself but watched my team since I was knee high to a grasshopper. So think I have as much right to comment on here. Kind of resent being called a wind up merchant but I suppose I will survive the slur. Keep calm and remember to take suitable Coronavirus precautions...
 

 

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Wit you want me to say about going back to the train, you were commenting on quite a few people and it started to come across as aggressive windup so anyone is going to feel the same way about you even later on when your comments are more reserved.  And no I didn't go back to any posts, no need, I just remember them.

Yes I know you never said it was me as I don't do that sort of thing, I'm more of taking  a person to task without insulting and I don't see me saying windup merchant as you were basically saying you were bored and wanted something to do.
If you have apologised for your earlier stuff then hopefully most whom you offended or annoyed have forgiven or forgot about it.
I state I have played and been involved most of my time in junior football inregards to I have a view that is not about the junior, keeping the grade alive, hstory alive etc.... So it has nothing to do with you or even that you have ever played in the grade or not played in the grade and you and everyone else have every right to comments on this thread and the whole of Pie and Bovril.

I am always calm, totally and try to be objective and break down my views so that people find it easy to understand the way that I see things as admittedly I sometimes force too much information on here which can be confusing even for me and I wrote it.

I'm not going any more on this as its typical of the way things get distracted from the important points of the post whether intentionally or unintentionally.
I've made my point and so have you 

Edited March 17, 2020 by Bestsinceslicebread

[FairWeatherFan]

6 minutes ago, G4Mac said:

The ersjfa people moved over after year one, after a clearly defined operating structure, which had been in place for a number of years, was provided.

That defined operating structure still basically in place as the President, Vice-President, Secretary and Treasurer as still roles held by pre-2018 members. The 4 ex ersjfa club reps only account for 4/12 of the people on the committee.

[Stag Nation]

7 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

Flashback a month ago and the chat about the West Lothian clubs wanting to stay in the Juniors was that they fancied their chances at winning the Junior Cup once the West Region was gutted in the same way they had been.

Anybody who bases a club’s business plan on winning a KO competition needs his head examined. Short-term, it’s very risky (see Rangers’ 2012 European failure and subsequent liquidation). Long-term, even more so.

[Guest]

That defined operating structure still basically in place as the President, Vice-President, Secretary and Treasurer as still roles held by pre-2018 members. The 4 ex ersjfa club reps only account for 4/12 of the people on the committee.

I get that fair. My point is that I am filled with the fear if the current sjfa/wrsjfa pyramid may sayers are involved in any capacity.

[Thereisalight..]

whens the junior games starting back up again lads?