Junior football, what is the future?

[cmontheloknow]

PPG is PPG, you don't arse about with home and away differences. IMO. Ave PPG can't ever be above 3 (as that kind of defeats the purpose of it!)

[Hillonearth]

6 minutes ago, craigkillie said:

Adding the two together is a bit unfair - imagine a team had won all of their home games but hadn't played any away games. They'd be able to get a maximum total of 3 despite clearly being better than that.

It's maybe not an ideal solution but it's a bit of a moot point unless the season had been curtailed much earlier than it was. Two-thirds of the way through the season as the vast majority of teams were, nobody would have failed to play at least a decent proportion of their home or away games.

[holmparkheroes]

2 hours ago, AsimButtHitsASix said:

Yeah I see what you mean but I think the fact they're currently tier 6 and not moving into it will see them be first seed. It wont make much difference either way. Out of curiosity what position in the west region do you think Bonnyton would be in if they were playing their currently? West Region Championship/League One sorta area?

I’ve never been to a SoSL game never mind a Bonnyton one. I’d probably be doing them a disservice if I was to even hazard a guess.

[AsimButtHitsASix]

1 minute ago, holmparkheroes said:

I’ve never been to a SoSL game never mind a Bonnyton one. I’d probably be doing them a disservice if I was to even hazard a guess.

If this thread isn't about baseless speculation and doing a disservice to others I don't know what it is for

[holmparkheroes]

21 minutes ago, AsimButtHitsASix said:

If this thread isn't about baseless speculation and doing a disservice to others I don't know what it is for

Aye, ok, old Ayrshire second ️

[cmontheloknow]

27 minutes ago, holmparkheroes said:

I’ve never been to a SoSL game never mind a Bonnyton one. I’d probably be doing them a disservice if I was to even hazard a guess.

The better SoSL sides are on a par with the Championship, the poorer ones on a par with your Ardeers etc... Would expect Bonnyton to settle into the middle two divisions assuming we end up with 4 eventually (like we have just now). (I have been to some SOS games).

Bonnyton are a very young team, most players under 23.

[FairWeatherFan]

Just now, cmontheloknow said:

The better SoSL sides are on a par with the Championship, the poorer ones on a par with your Ardeers etc... Would expect Bonnyton to settle into the middle two divisions assuming we end up with 4 eventually (like we have just now). (I have been to some SOS games).

Bonnyton are a very young team, most players under 23.

If I remember right they lost a few players from the squad that finished second the previous season. So probably in a bit of a transition with their focus on brining through their own youth players.

[cmontheloknow]

1 minute ago, FairWeatherFan said:

If I remember right they lost a few players from the squad that finished second the previous season. So probably in a bit of a transition with their focus on brining through their own youth players.

Yeah 4 or 5 ended up Junior, Maybole, Girvan, Craigmark, Annbank. A good indicator of their level.

[Ginaro]

2 hours ago, Marten said:

It will be interesting to see how they seed Bonnyton, it would be a bit unfair to them to seed them 64th together with the 3 lowest League Two teams. Having 4 amateurs (providing all get accepted) will make it easy in the case of 4 conferences, just add one to each conference.

I considered that as well - but if there's four conferences it doesn't actually matter whether Bonnyton are 1st or 64th in the big list of clubs before they are split, they are with the same set of clubs in either case

As for the differences in Pos v PPG for seeding, I'd put together this table but was beaten by @Dev however it has a column showing the difference between actual positions and PPG.

Pos	Pos PPG	Diff	Club	Pl	Pts	PPG	Conf Pos	Conf PPG
3	1	2	Auchinleck Talbot	16	41	2.56	C	A
1	2	-1	Kilwinning Rangers	25	53	2.12	A	B
2	3	-1	Pollok	22	42	1.91	B	C
6	4	2	Glenafton Athletic	20	36	1.80	B	D
4	5	-1	Irvine Meadow XI	22	38	1.73	D	A
7	6	1	Beith Juniors	21	34	1.62	C	B
12	7	5	Hurlford United	19	29	1.53	D	C
8	8	0	Kilbirnie Ladeside	24	33	1.38	D	D
5	9	-4	Clydebank	28	37	1.32	A	A
9	10	-1	Cumnock Juniors	25	32	1.28	A	B
10	11	-1	Rossvale	25	32	1.28	B	C
11	12	-1	Largs Thistle	25	31	1.24	C	D
14	13	1	Benburb	20	19	0.95	B	A
13	14	-1	Troon	24	22	0.92	A	B
15	15	0	Rutherglen Glencairn	17	12	0.71	C	C
16	16	0	Kirkintilloch Rob Roy	17	6	0.35	D	D
3	1	2	Blantyre Victoria	18	46	2.56	C	A
1	2	-1	Darvel	21	53	2.52	A	B
2	3	-1	Cumbernauld United	22	47	2.14	B	C
5	4	1	Shotts Bon Accord	18	34	1.89	A	D
4	5	-1	Renfrew	23	42	1.83	D	A
7	6	1	Neilston Juniors	18	31	1.72	C	B
9	7	2	Kilsyth Rangers	16	26	1.63	A	C
10	8	2	Dalry Thistle	17	23	1.35	B	D
6	9	-3	Arthurlie	23	31	1.35	B	A
8	10	-2	Whitletts Victoria	23	27	1.17	D	B
11	11	0	Gartcairn Juniors	21	21	1.00	C	C
13	12	1	St Roch's	18	18	1.00	A	D
12	13	-1	Petershill	21	20	0.95	D	A
14	14	0	Cambuslang Rangers	21	17	0.81	B	B
15	15	0	Craigmark Burntonians	22	17	0.77	C	C
16	16	0	Irvine Victoria	24	13	0.54	D	D
3	1	2	Shettleston	19	43	2.26	C	A
1	2	-1	Ardrossan Winton Rov.	22	44	2.00	A	B
2	3	-1	Lanark United	23	44	1.91	B	C
4	4	0	Port Glasgow Juniors	24	43	1.79	D	D
5	5	0	Lesmahagow Juniors	25	42	1.68	A	A
10	6	4	Bellshill Athletic	19	31	1.63	B	B
6	7	-1	Greenock Juniors	22	35	1.59	B	C
8	8	0	Glasgow Perthshire	21	32	1.52	D	D
9	9	0	Larkhall Thistle	22	32	1.45	A	A
7	10	-3	Carluke Rovers	26	33	1.27	C	B
11	11	0	Girvan	19	24	1.26	C	C
12	12	0	Maryhill	21	23	1.10	D	D
13	13	0	Kello Rovers	21	21	1.00	A	A
14	14	0	Wishaw Juniors	19	18	0.95	B	B
15	15	0	East Kilbride Thistle	21	17	0.81	C	C
16	16	0	Royal Albert	22	10	0.45	D	D
5	1	4	Johnstone Burgh	14	39	2.79	A	A
3	2	1	Muirkirk Juniors	19	42	2.21	C	B
6	3	3	Ashfield	17	37	2.18	B	C
1	4	-3	Vale of Leven	24	47	1.96	A	D
2	5	-3	Yoker Athletic	22	42	1.91	B	A
7	6	1	Thorniewood United	19	35	1.84	C	B
8	7	1	Forth Wanderers	18	33	1.83	D	C
4	8	-4	Maybole Juniors	23	40	1.74	D	D
9	9	0	Annbank United	22	32	1.45	A	A
10	10	0	Vale of Clyde	21	29	1.38	B	B
11	11	0	St Anthony's	20	26	1.30	C	C
13	12	1	Newmains United	19	16	0.84	A	D
12	13	-1	Saltcoats Victoria	24	16	0.67	D	A
14	14	0	Lugar Boswell Thistle	21	8	0.38	B	B
15	15	0	Ardeer Thistle	23	2	0.09	C	C
1			Bonnyton Thistle				D	D
2			Glasgow University				A	A
3			Drumchapel				B	B
4			TBA				C	C
5			TBA				D	D

 

 

[FairWeatherFan]

3 minutes ago, Ginaro said:

I considered that as well - but if there's four conferences it doesn't actually matter whether Bonnyton are 1st or 64th in the big list of clubs before they are split, they are with the same set of clubs in either case

Bonnyton would only be in the same set of teams if you used serpentine order. Which wasn't the way the EoSFL did the Conferences in 2018-19. If they just go A-B-C-D-A-B-C-D. Bonnyton would either be in Conference A or Conference D.

[Ginaro]

1 minute ago, FairWeatherFan said:

Bonnyton would only be in the same set of teams if you used serpentine order. Which wasn't the way the EoSFL did the Conferences in 2018-19. If they just go A-B-C-D-A-B-C-D. Bonnyton would either be in Conference A or Conference D.

Yeah their conference letter would change if you put them at the top, but then wouldn't everyone else just be bumped down so the teams stay the same?

There's two splitting methods - sequential (A-B-C-D-A-B-C-D etc as I used above) or snake (A-B-C-D-D-C-B-A etc) - EOS used sequential, right?

[FairWeatherFan]

2 minutes ago, Ginaro said:

Yeah their conference letter would change if you put them at the top, but then wouldn't everyone else just be bumped down so the teams stay the same?

There's two splitting methods - sequential (A-B-C-D-A-B-C-D etc as I used above) or snake (A-B-C-D-D-C-B-A etc) - EOS used sequential, right?

EOS went sequential. So class them 1st overall seed  = A. Class them 64th they're = D.

Snake/Serpentine would go back on itself so that 1st and 64th are Conference A.

 

[Ginaro]

8 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

EOS went sequential. So class them 1st overall seed  = A. Class them 64th they're = D.

Snake/Serpentine would go back on itself so that 1st and 64th are Conference A.

I don't dispute any of that But what I'm saying is that the letter may change but the clubs in their Conference will not - they'll still have Glenafton, Kilbirnie, Largs etc. no matter if they are ranked 1 or 64 (assuming sequential like the EOS).

Club	BT #64	BT #1
Bonnyton Thistle	D	A
Auchinleck Talbot	A	B
Kilwinning Rangers	B	C
Pollok	C	D
Glenafton Athletic	D	A
Irvine Meadow XI	A	B
Beith Juniors	B	C
Hurlford United	C	D
Kilbirnie Ladeside	D	A
Clydebank	A	B
Cumnock Juniors	B	C
Rossvale	C	D
Largs Thistle	D	A
Benburb	A	B
Troon	B	C
Rutherglen Glencairn	C	D

 

[holmparkheroes]

Maybe better waiting to see if 68 get in.

[theesel1994]

Hurry up LL and announce constitution of new league to save page upon page of tables and different permutations on how conferences should be arrived at.

[Dev]

3 hours ago, bigdaddieb said:

Something wrong in your calculation with Bellshill, We have 31 points but when its split to home and away the total listed is only 25?

 

Thanks very much indeed.

Human error - on my part.

If there are any other errors please advise so I can put right.

[Dev]

3 hours ago, bigdaddieb said:

Sorry Dev, have the correct PPG just the wrong figure for home points. 18 points won at home

Got it.

[Dev]

2 hours ago, craigkillie said:

Adding the two together is a bit unfair - imagine a team had won all of their home games but hadn't played any away games. They'd be able to get a maximum total of 3 despite clearly being better than that.

 

2 hours ago, craigkillie said:

Adding the two together is a bit unfair - imagine a team had won all of their home games but hadn't played any away games. They'd be able to get a maximum total of 3 despite clearly being better than that.

Every system would be unfair to one or more clubs and some have only played 5 or 6 Away matches. 

[archieb]

18 minutes ago, Ginaro said:

I don't dispute any of that But what I'm saying is that the letter may change but the clubs in their Conference will not - they'll still have Glenafton, Kilbirnie, Largs etc. no matter if they are ranked 1 or 64 (assuming sequential like the EOS).

 

Club	BT #64	BT #1
Bonnyton Thistle	D	A
Auchinleck Talbot	A	B
Kilwinning Rangers	B	C
Pollok	C	D
Glenafton Athletic	D	A
Irvine Meadow XI	A	B
Beith Juniors	B	C
Hurlford United	C	D
Kilbirnie Ladeside	D	A
Clydebank	A	B
Cumnock Juniors	B	C
Rossvale	C	D
Largs Thistle	D	A
Benburb	A	B
Troon	B	C
Rutherglen Glencairn	C	D

 

That only applies if the sorting is sequential, not if it's serpentine

[cmontheloknow]

It really doesn't matter a great deal as the 4 divisions will be very evenly matched anyway.