craigkillie Posted April 10, 2020 Share Posted April 10, 2020 1 minute ago, FairWeatherFan said: Out of curiosity what exactly is tribalistic about it? He's said that the way the East of Scotland did it was suboptimal and you have the most pro-EoS posters immediately jumping down his throat about it. Folk have been correctly accusing the Juniors of the same thing plenty of times, but it goes the other way sometimes. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairWeatherFan Posted April 10, 2020 Share Posted April 10, 2020 5 minutes ago, Wile E Coyote said: What exactly are you arguing here. It is a fictional example to illustrate a point The season hasn't finished so you cannot attribute a true value to the teams to correctly seed them in the first place. So it doesn't matter which approach is taken after that. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wile E Coyote Posted April 10, 2020 Share Posted April 10, 2020 Just now, FairWeatherFan said: The season hasn't finished so you cannot attribute a true value to the teams to correctly seed them in the first place. So it doesn't matter which approach is taken after that. You can attribute any value you want to illustrate a FICTIONAL example. Forget the team names, it shows the 13th seeded team gets shafted compared to the 16th seeded team 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairWeatherFan Posted April 10, 2020 Share Posted April 10, 2020 1 minute ago, Wile E Coyote said: You can attribute any value you want to illustrate a FICTIONAL example. Forget the team names, it shows the 13th seeded team gets shafted compared to the 16th seeded team Not if they were shafted in the first place by the seeding. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicotina Posted April 10, 2020 Share Posted April 10, 2020 If a player is currently suspended from the junior cup & his club participate in next season's cup can he play as this season results has been wiped out ? Genuine question 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hossy87 Posted April 10, 2020 Share Posted April 10, 2020 10 minutes ago, nicotina said: If a player is currently suspended from the junior cup & his club participate in next season's cup can he play as this season results has been wiped out ? Genuine question No. Suspensions still carry. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glensmad Posted April 10, 2020 Share Posted April 10, 2020 If a player is currently suspended from the junior cup & his club participate in next season's cup can he play as this season results has been wiped out ? Genuine questionPlayers are not specifically suspended for a Scottish Junior Cup tie. They are suspended for a certain number of matches from a certain date. If that happens to be a Scottish Junior Cup tie, and that tie is postponed, then the suspension would be served in the next competitive game regardless of the competition. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BMan Posted April 10, 2020 Share Posted April 10, 2020 He's said that the way the East of Scotland did it was suboptimal and you have the most pro-EoS posters immediately jumping down his throat about it. Folk have been correctly accusing the Juniors of the same thing plenty of times, but it goes the other way sometimes.He called the way the EoS implemented last season seeding as "idiotic". Tribal indeed. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junior Pub League Posted April 11, 2020 Share Posted April 11, 2020 3 hours ago, craigkillie said: He's said that the way the East of Scotland did it was suboptimal and you have the most pro-EoS posters immediately jumping down his throat about it. Folk have been correctly accusing the Juniors of the same thing plenty of times, but it goes the other way sometimes. You alright son? you've been having a bit of a mare over the last week or so. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parkcircus Posted April 11, 2020 Share Posted April 11, 2020 10 hours ago, Jerry Macguire said: I can tell you, you have been seriously misled. The LL never set a limit on numbers. There was no agreement to accept all junior clubs. The acceptance criteria is pretty well known as its the same criteria used by the EoSFL. As far representing the clubs is concerned. Do you really think the junior clubs who didn't want to join the new set up but were told they had no choice but to apply for WoSL as the WR wouldn't be providing an alternative feel represented? Considering I was the person that contacted the LL to ask how many teams they needed to get this League going in January (I’ve been talking to the LL and EoS for 2 years) and then put out our statement that got this all started, I don’t think I’ve been misled by anyone. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marten Posted April 11, 2020 Share Posted April 11, 2020 9 hours ago, craigkillie said: This is the biggest problem in this whole thread - the guy Wile E Coyote has posted something which is objectively true and yet folk are disagreeing with him for tribalistic reasons. Agreed, although I would have chosen a different term than "idiotic", he made a very fair point. 9 hours ago, FairWeatherFan said: The season hasn't finished so you cannot attribute a true value to the teams to correctly seed them in the first place. So it doesn't matter which approach is taken after that. The discussion is not how you arrive at the seedings, but how you form the leagues once you've got the seedings. He didn't argue why team x should be 13th or 16th, he argued (correctly imo) that when forming the leagues, team 13 shouldn't have a disadvantage compared to team 16. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairWeatherFan Posted April 11, 2020 Share Posted April 11, 2020 5 minutes ago, Marten said: The discussion is not how you arrive at the seedings, but how you form the leagues once you've got the seedings. He didn't argue why team x should be 13th or 16th, he argued (correctly imo) that when forming the leagues, team 13 shouldn't have a disadvantage compared to team 16. PPG gives you examples like 5th placed Johnstone Burgh becoming the 1st seed for League Two clubs. 3rd placed Blantyre Victoria becoming the 1st seed for Championship clubs. If the seeding is flawed in the first place because it is incomplete you cannot say 13 is disadvantaged to 16 because their true values are not actually 13 and 16. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
passbackdave Posted April 11, 2020 Share Posted April 11, 2020 Maybe better waiting to see if 68 get in.Spoil sport lolMon the papers 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marten Posted April 11, 2020 Share Posted April 11, 2020 1 minute ago, FairWeatherFan said: PPG gives you examples like 5th placed Johnstone Burgh becoming the 1st seed for League Two clubs. 3rd placed Blantyre Victoria becoming the 1st seed for Championship clubs. If the seeding is flawed in the first place because it is incomplete you cannot say 13 is disadvantaged to 16 because their true values are not actually 13 and 16. There will always be flaws with an unfinished season, using last season's standings for example would also have a major flaw as some clubs will have become considerably stronger or weaker. The fairest method imo is PPG with the "snake" method. But his point was specifically about snake v sequential, and he is very right that the former is fairer. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshmallo Posted April 11, 2020 Share Posted April 11, 2020 10 hours ago, craigkillie said: This is the biggest problem in this whole thread - the guy Wile E Coyote has posted something which is objectively true and yet folk are disagreeing with him for tribalistic reasons. The other latest one is people wanting every West Junior club to move across, but now it's happened it was done in the wrong way and is actually harmful to those Junior clubs The majority of posters with these viewpoints don't actually care about football, in their heads it's a battle to win an invented war which exists on the internet. -4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
passbackdave Posted April 11, 2020 Share Posted April 11, 2020 How does everyone feel about leaving the juniors but still retaining there place in the junior cup? Mon the papers 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beenzon-Toste Posted April 11, 2020 Share Posted April 11, 2020 How does everyone feel about leaving the juniors but still retaining there place in the junior cup? Mon the papersWhat's it to you? -8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sancho Panza Posted April 11, 2020 Share Posted April 11, 2020 27 minutes ago, passbackdave said: How does everyone feel about leaving the juniors but still retaining there place in the junior cup? Mon the papers A fair few clubs never mentioned it in their statments about application to WoSL. I think, and I may be wrong, only Buffs and Bankies have stated they will not be playing in the Junior Cup 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsimButtHitsASix Posted April 11, 2020 Share Posted April 11, 2020 (edited) 34 minutes ago, passbackdave said: How does everyone feel about leaving the juniors but still retaining there place in the junior cup? Mon the papers Win/win for the Junior clubs and no difference to other clubs (who, I believe, can apply for junior membership if they do wish to take part?). An extra chance at a trophy/prize money/decent crowds. Doesn't harm the clubs that aren't in the Junior Cup. If there's any issues about fixture congestion the clubs can withdraw or play a second string if they feel they have little other choice but that's the gamble they're willing to take if they do go for it. Doesn't seem any different to the Fife Cup or Aberdeenshire Shield or whatever in that regard aside from the geographic aspect. Edited April 11, 2020 by AsimButtHitsASix 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
not man of the match Posted April 11, 2020 Share Posted April 11, 2020 A fair few clubs never mentioned it in their statments about application to WoSL. I think, and I may be wrong, only Buffs and Bankies have stated they will not be playing in the Junior CupNothing been said by Bankies on that front unless I’ve missed it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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