Junior football, what is the future?

[Hillonearth]

8 hours ago, Robert James said:

Sadly the way ahead has become tribal, driven by emotion, and not by what is best for the clubs concerned, nor for Scottish football in general.   

EXIT v REMAIN

The SLL is to hold its "expressions of interest" meeting (with approx 50 clubs apparently) in order to clarify its position/answer questions, etc, regarding the WoSL. This is a positive initiative, IMO.

whereas...

The WRJFA has NOT called an EGM, and as things stand tonight, appears to have no intention of calling a meeting with its clubs, to clarify its WRJFA version of the new league. Instead it has issued an e-mail to clubs, which apparently has been "acknowledged" by some of its management committee.  Implied legal action, is very negative, and unlikely to help the WRJFA, nor the SJFA, IMO. 

Events will take their course over the next 4 weeks. Continuing exchanges on here are unlikely to overcome "entrenched positions" to any great degree, again IMO.

WRSJFA have actually called a meeting for next Thursday, so we'll see exactly what their proposals are then on how to move things forward.

The main difference between the two so far has been one of approach, with the LL/EoS inviting expressions of interest with no obligation to commit until after they put their proposals to clubs while the SJFA has requested an expression of support to strengthen their hand prior to revealing the details of their approach.

 

[parkcircus]

50 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said:

Unlikely to happen. We'll get more details from the LL soon as they said they would do that by the end of this week. Although the west region want to be the west feeder to the LL, the LL and EoS can veto that from happening due to the rules related to changing the playoff format to get into the LL.  It's nearly 100% certain now that the only way into the pyramid for clubs in the west will be through the new WoS division(s) that the LL are planning to launch next season.

Pretty accurate 

[Junior Pub League]

1 hour ago, G4Mac said:

6 hours ago, Talbot supporter said:

Heard the pyramid and sjfa & new wosl will amalgamation also with the junior cup and west cup ?

I'd be surprised, there are already cops covering what the junior cup covers.

Time to send Ted round

[Born To Run]

15 minutes ago, cmontheloknow said:

The LL / EoS statement MUST state the following:

1. They are the only show in town, acknowledged by the SFA, and the SFA does not and will not plan a 'Head to Head' vote at the June AGM.

2. There are no limits to applications and all applicants meeting exisiting tier 6 standards in EoS/SoS will be admitted. 

3. No rival league in a directly overlapping area will be granted access to the Pyramid Play Off into Lowland league. The precedent for this was set during PWG meetings when an East SJFA feeder was denied.

To be honest, at this point there is a responsibility on each individual club to do their research - as there should be when considering future plans/changes.

The LL/EoS cannot be expected to hand hold the whole way. Indeed, this kind of behaviour will be seized upon as “trying to steal our clubs” by the SJFA reps.

Feels like we’re approaching the point of the LL/EoS pressing ahead in complete comfort and confidence that the WoSFL is happening regardless. Any clubs choosing to be left behind can apply as normal next summer.

[cmontheloknow]

15 minutes ago, Born To Run said:

To be honest, at this point there is a responsibility on each individual club to do their research - as there should be when considering future plans/changes.

The LL/EoS cannot be expected to hand hold the whole way. Indeed, this kind of behaviour will be seized upon as “trying to steal our clubs” by the SJFA reps.

Feels like we’re approaching the point of the LL/EoS pressing ahead in complete comfort and confidence that the WoSFL is happening regardless. Any clubs choosing to be left behind can apply as normal next summer.

Clubs are ran by older men who are easily swayed by confirmation bias. Dangerous approach.

The EoS existed last year. There is nothing for them to look into that is real this time.

You also have to bear in mind supporters who do not have access to those lines of communication to get those questions answered.

Edited March 4, 2020 by cmontheloknow

[FairWeatherFan]

28 minutes ago, Doonhamer1969 said:

'Seeded teams'.....that could therefore go straight into a WoS Premier.

How will the LL seed the teams ?

By making the same 'assumption' I'm making that West Junior teams are better than amateur teams ?

There's 5 question marks in my post, therefore 5 questions, 4 you haven't answered.

PS regional leagues aren't the same as conferences.

 An imaginary amateur team, travelling to an imaginary place to get beat by an imaginary team isn't a question that can be answered.

How do the vast majority of clubs feel having to rejig. I think at one point you suggested 55 clubs being in the league. 16 team premier leaves 39 clubs. How do they get sorted? 39-16 seems like the vast majority would have to rejig.

[gaz5]

Clubs are ran by older men who are easily swayed by confirmation bias. Dangerous approach.
The EoS existed last year. There is nothing for them to look into that is real this time.
You also have to bear in mind supporters who do not have access to those lines of communication to get those questions answered.

While I understand your point Lok, surely given that we know the EoS and LL are going to run this league and that we know how well they run their own league's, there is a reference point in terms of what to look at.

The WoS is basically the EoS for West teams. Same people and I'd be amazed if they didn't confirm same format/rules etc. at their meeting.

I think older junior committee members who use the excuse of "not knowing what we're moving to" is a poor one.. There's plenty of ways to get that information and look at how that league is likely to run based on those currently running.

The older members of our committee had to be educated on the EoS when we were doing our due diligence and when the pros and cons were laid out on the table it was unanimous.

Committees, regardless of age, just have to do their homework. If they are swayed by emotion/confirmation bias then, in my humble opinion, they're not doing their job as custodians of their club.

And to be clear, for some clubs that may be to stay Junior. That is entirely their right. If they look at the pros and cons objectively and decide that's their future, then at least the decision has been made based on knowledge, not emotion. Every club has the right to choose what they think it's best for them. I just hope they do either way based on facts, not fiction.

There's also a former West Region Junior team playing in the EoS league who could give an insight if asked. To this point only one person from one club has asked that question.

[glensmad]

11 minutes ago, gaz5 said:

While I understand your point Lok, surely given that we know the EoS and LL are going to run this league and that we know how well they run their own league's, there is a reference point in terms of what to look at.

The WoS is basically the EoS for West teams. Same people and I'd be amazed if they didn't confirm same format/rules etc. at their meeting.

I think older junior committee members who use the excuse of "not knowing what we're moving to" is a poor one.. There's plenty of ways to get that information and look at how that league is likely to run based on those currently running.

The older members of our committee had to be educated on the EoS when we were doing our due diligence and when the pros and cons were laid out on the table it was unanimous.

Committees, regardless of age, just have to do their homework. If they are swayed by emotion/confirmation bias then, in my humble opinion, they're not doing their job as custodians of their club.

And to be clear, for some clubs that may be to stay Junior. That is entirely their right. If they look at the pros and cons objectively and decide that's their future, then at least the decision has been made based on knowledge, not emotion. Every club has the right to choose what they think it's best for them. I just hope they do either way based on facts, not fiction.

There's also a former West Region Junior team playing in the EoS league who could give an insight if asked. To this point only one person from one club has asked that question.

I couldn't agree more with all of the above.

[Burnie_man]

6 hours ago, Doonhamer1969 said:

1.No I'm not.

Vast majority will be from WJFA.

What 'other league' are you referring to ?

2. Some can. Vast majority don't.

3.Find me another example on the planet of 4 parallel club league conferences.

 

Rewind... Repeat.

Why should the vast majority of clubs rejig to accommodate the tiny few ?

What fans of which amateur club wish to travel to see their team getting asswhupped ?

 

And PS how will it benefit Scottish football as a whole, or the best West Junior teams, to play against teams their reserve sides could beat ?

What point is there having 4 conferences to get the top 4 from each of them back into a league they are already in this year ? Might as well do it in 2020-21 instead of 2021-22. (Precedent East Super League 2017-2018 and EoS Premier 2019-2020, 75% the same teams)

Because that is how it's going to work, everyone in a new league starts equal, and rightly so.

[Burnie_man]

7 hours ago, Talbot supporter said:

Heard the pyramid and sjfa & new wosl will amalgamation also with the junior cup and west cup ?

That right aye.

[AlanCamelonfan]

22 minutes ago, gaz5 said:

While I understand your point Lok, surely given that we know the EoS and LL are going to run this league and that we know how well they run their own league's, there is a reference point in terms of what to look at.

The WoS is basically the EoS for West teams. Same people and I'd be amazed if they didn't confirm same format/rules etc. at their meeting.

I think older junior committee members who use the excuse of "not knowing what we're moving to" is a poor one.. There's plenty of ways to get that information and look at how that league is likely to run based on those currently running.

The older members of our committee had to be educated on the EoS when we were doing our due diligence and when the pros and cons were laid out on the table it was unanimous.

Committees, regardless of age, just have to do their homework. If they are swayed by emotion/confirmation bias then, in my humble opinion, they're not doing their job as custodians of their club.

And to be clear, for some clubs that may be to stay Junior. That is entirely their right. If they look at the pros and cons objectively and decide that's their future, then at least the decision has been made based on knowledge, not emotion. Every club has the right to choose what they think it's best for them. I just hope they do either way based on facts, not fiction.

There's also a former West Region Junior team playing in the EoS league who could give an insight if asked. To this point only one person from one club has asked that question.

I wonder if wsjfa are hoping they dont get enough applicants and then can go look we can run the pyramid league. Total self preservation and more likely to lead to a split

[the rambler]

From what I hear there does appear to be growing  support for WJFA option if Pyramid entry can be guaranteed. 

The meeting on 12th March will tell us a whole lot more, until then just speculation as to who is going where and how many West League options. 

I hope that this can be resolved so that traditional rivals can continue to play one another and with access to the Pyramid. 

[AlanCamelonfan]

9 minutes ago, the rambler said:

From what I hear there does appear to be growing  support for WJFA option if Pyramid entry can be guaranteed. 

The meeting on 12th March will tell us a whole lot more, until then just speculation as to who is going where and how many West League options. 

I hope that this can be resolved so that traditional rivals can continue to play one another and with access to the Pyramid. 

But we know it's not going to happen 

[Jacksgranda]

9 hours ago, Robert James said:

Sadly the way ahead has become tribal, driven by emotion, and not by what is best for the clubs concerned, nor for Scottish football in general.   

EXIT v REMAIN

The SLL is to hold its "expressions of interest" meeting (with approx 50 clubs apparently) in order to clarify its position/answer questions, etc, regarding the WoSL. This is a positive initiative, IMO.

whereas...

The WRJFA has NOT called an EGM, and as things stand tonight, appears to have no intention of calling a meeting with its clubs, to clarify its WRJFA version of the new league. Instead it has issued an e-mail to clubs, which apparently has been "acknowledged" by some of its management committee.  Implied legal action, is very negative, and unlikely to help the WRJFA, nor the SJFA, IMO. 

Events will take their course over the next 4 weeks. Continuing exchanges on here are unlikely to overcome "entrenched positions" to any great degree, again IMO.

No, but they will make wonderful reading.

[Burnie_man]

12 minutes ago, the rambler said:

From what I hear there does appear to be growing  support for WJFA option if Pyramid entry can be guaranteed. 

The meeting on 12th March will tell us a whole lot more, until then just speculation as to who is going where and how many West League options. 

I hope that this can be resolved so that traditional rivals can continue to play one another and with access to the Pyramid. 

This is the Ronney/Beenze show, at least the EGM gives clubs the chance to grill him on what he can't deliver, although given how many were lead by the nose over the option Z debacle, I'm not sure that much in the way of facts will be presented.

Things may have moved on significantly in the intervening 7 days.

[Marten]

21 minutes ago, the rambler said:

From what I hear there does appear to be growing  support for WJFA option if Pyramid entry can be guaranteed. 

The meeting on 12th March will tell us a whole lot more, until then just speculation as to who is going where and how many West League options. 

I hope that this can be resolved so that traditional rivals can continue to play one another and with access to the Pyramid. 

In a WoSFL traditional rivals can also continue to play each other. Just like traditional rivals that used to play each other in the East Superleague now play each other in the EOS Premier.

Other than access to the pyramid & licensing the only noticeable difference will be the name of the league.

[morley]

Am I right I thinking there must be a legal agreement already in place between the Spfl and LL which gives them approval to run a senior feeder into the spfl across the Lowland region, or words to that effect. If so has that document been seen by anyone on here? Does that stipulate how many teams or tiers the LL can have, have any geographical restriction, is it for a fixed term, is there an exit clause , is there a mutualy exclusive clause which says the spfl will not put a parallel agreement in place with another league in the Lowland region? Or is the current agreement nothing more than a handshake and verbal agreement between the parties? 

[Burnie_man]

3 minutes ago, morley said:

Am I right I thinking there must be a legal agreement already in place between the Spfl and LL which gives them approval to run a senior feeder into the spfl across the Lowland region, or words to that effect. If so has that document been seen by anyone on here? Does that stipulate how many teams or tiers the LL can have, have any geographical restriction, is it for a fixed term, is there an exit clause , is there a mutualy exclusive clause which says the spfl will not put a parallel agreement in place with another league in the Lowland region? Or is the current agreement nothing more than a handshake and verbal agreement between the parties? 

http://slfl.co.uk/legal/slfl-rules-regulations/

[Junior Pub League]

36 minutes ago, AlanCamelonfan said:

But we know it's not going to happen 

No we don't.

I was poo pooed on here weeks ago by certain individuals when I said that the WoS (as run by the LL) was not at that point certain to start next season.

As yet there has still been no guarantee or confirmation that the WoS will run next year. Anyone saying anything to the contrary is not being wholly truthful at this point.

[Baldie2k19]

3 minutes ago, Junior Pub League said:

No we don't.

I was poo pooed on here weeks ago by certain individuals when I said that the WoS (as run by the LL) was not at that point certain to start next season.

As yet there has still been no guarantee or confirmation that the WoS will run next year. Anyone saying anything to the contrary is not being wholly truthful at this point.

That's because we haven't yet even reached the closing date for applications. It IS happening.