Junior football, what is the future?

[Ginaro]

19 minutes ago, Born To Run said:

At the risk of swimming against the tide...

Im pleasantly surprised with the West Region’s overall suggestions. There is an air of compromise and understanding in there which was lacking from the SJFA in the PWG phase of negotiations.

It may prove to be too late, but some people aren’t really considering the gravity of this alternative plan. Voluntarily ceding control of the Premiership would be a huge step.

Will ceding control of the Premiership be enough though? What about clubs in the divisions below, will they be prevented from taking advantage of the senior pyramid benefits like club licensing, U20s, no fines, no reinstatement etc.?

And have they mentioned yet how they will get the LL, EOS and SOS to agree to changing their play-off rules?

Edited March 11, 2020 by Ginaro

[theesel1994]

So who administers the new Premiership?

Is it the Lowland League? So they administer one of its feeder league but not the other two. Say a club signs a Senior player then gets relegated - will they have to pay the reinstatement tax when they return to the Junior League if that player stays on?

Is it the West Region?  So a Senior Club has to turn Junior if relegated. Or are they exempt from this?

[Sidney Lumet]

13 minutes ago, Born To Run said:

At the risk of swimming against the tide...

Im pleasantly surprised with the West Region’s overall suggestions. There is an air of compromise and understanding in there which was lacking from the SJFA in the PWG phase of negotiations.

It may prove to be too late, but some people aren’t really considering the gravity of this alternative plan. Voluntarily ceding control of the Premiership would be a huge step.

I will swim against the tide with you, but only so far. This is precisely the type of compromise offer that was needed and that should have come from the SJFA (the body represented at the PWG) long before now. However, this suggestion is now only being put forward under huge duress due to the collapse of the PWG thanks to SJFA intransigence and to the oh so late realisation that the WRJFA are about to become a huge irrelevance to football in the west of the country, just as the ERSJFA have become a huge irrelevance in the east. With such relegation to the tiniest of footnotes so goes the SJFA relevance too. It appears the SJFA/WRSJFA hierarchy will now volunteer to cede what is necessary to save their honorarium - and they're sufficiently thick skinned not to see just how embarrassing talk of a protest on the stairs of Hampden (if true) is to them and to the clubs of their beloved 'grade'.

 

It’s all too little too late and as has been said by others – clubs are, or certainly should be, now well aware of just what charlatans those in charge of ‘the grade’ actually are and have been. This charade will come to an end soon, beginning with tomorrows Lowland League meeting and concluding with the closing of applications to the new WoSFL shortly thererafter.

[GordonS]

16 minutes ago, Born To Run said:

At the risk of swimming against the tide...

Im pleasantly surprised with the West Region’s overall suggestions. There is an air of compromise and understanding in there which was lacking from the SJFA in the PWG phase of negotiations.

It may prove to be too late, but some people aren’t really considering the gravity of this alternative plan. Voluntarily ceding control of the Premiership would be a huge step.

I agree, and I hoped that immediately following the last PWG they had said "ok, game's a bogey, we'll go with your plan." But even the current plan doesn't do that and couldn't be acceptable to the LL. If one of the LL's west-based members was relegated twice (and there's a good chance that any who dropped into the West of Scotland Premier would drop straight through, given its strength) they would be forced to turn Junior, with all the nonsense that entails around fixtures, fines, reinstatement etc. It's just not credible.

I very much doubt they've compromised enough, and I think the LL and a lot of clubs will see the timing as not being in good faith. It is a significant strategic retreat, as you say, but it's almost certainly too little, too late.

[GordonS]

3 minutes ago, theesel1994 said:

So who administers the new Premiership?

Is it the Lowland League? So they administer one of its feeder league but not the other two. Say a club signs a Senior player then gets relegated - will they have to pay the reinstatement tax when they return to the Junior League if that player stays on?

Is it the West Region?  So a Senior Club has to turn Junior if relegated. Or are they exempt from this?

The LL/EoS/SoS said in their joint statement that they would sort out administration and governance with members who apply to join and are accepted. I take that to mean that the WoSFL will administer it themselves, with support from the LL if they want it.

[theesel1994]

Just now, GordonS said:

The LL/EoS/SoS said in their joint statement that they would sort out administration and governance with members who apply to join and are accepted. I take that to mean that the WoSFL will administer it themselves, with support from the LL if they want it.

I'm more meaning this planned League the West Region have. I'm aware the LL/EoSL will hand their WoSL over to the clubs. Again - lacking in detail from the West Region unless they have provided the clubs with more details than they have the supporters. At least the LL make their statements public.

[Jerry Macguire]

5 minutes ago, GordonS said:

The LL/EoS/SoS said in their joint statement that they would sort out administration and governance with members who apply to join and are accepted. I take that to mean that the WoSFL will administer it themselves, with support from the LL if they want it.

This is exactly right. I think the LL will act as administrator until such times as a committee can be elected. I would imagine that would happen quite quickly judging by the club's likely to be involved in the new set up and the experience they bring. The WoSFL will be the same as the others. Run for the clubs by the clubs.

[Burnie_man]

25 minutes ago, theesel1994 said:

So who administers the new Premiership?

Is it the Lowland League? So they administer one of its feeder league but not the other two. Say a club signs a Senior player then gets relegated - will they have to pay the reinstatement tax when they return to the Junior League if that player stays on?

Is it the West Region?  So a Senior Club has to turn Junior if relegated. Or are they exempt from this?

They're effectively saying we'll plug-in the WRJFA (and everything that goes with it), into a LL run WoSFL.      So there will be a Senior/Junior line between tier 6 and 7, that raises many issues.

Now, the LL won't be running the WoSFL forever (in fact it will be fairly light touch anyway as the SFA do the registrations and discipline and they'll need some board position filled by member clubs right from the start),  so then you have the prospect of the WoSFL coming under the de-facto control of the WRJFA/SJFA once all their own people are on board.  Trojan horse? a little bit conspiratorial perhaps but well.......

There's also the fact that why would the LL run this Junior version of the WoSFL when they are free to run their own one, which is already in progress of being set-up and is open to all clubs.

 

 

Edited March 11, 2020 by Burnie_man

[not man of the match]

All the people, so many people.

[Cameron Wilson]

45 minutes ago, Born To Run said:

At the risk of swimming against the tide...

Im pleasantly surprised with the West Region’s overall suggestions. There is an air of compromise and understanding in there which was lacking from the SJFA in the PWG phase of negotiations.

It may prove to be too late, but some people aren’t really considering the gravity of this alternative plan. Voluntarily ceding control of the Premiership would be a huge step.

I thought the same actually. But the JFA have proven themselves to be clowns, so even if this plan was somehow followed, there's no guarantee they would be able to administer it competently.

[theesel1994]

3 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

They're effectively saying we'll plug-in the WRJFA (and everything that goes with it), into a LL run WoSFL.      So there will be a Senior/Junior line between tier 6 and 7, that raises many issues.

Now, the LL won't be running the WoSFL forever (in fact it will be fairly light touch anyway as the SFA do the registrations and discipline and they'll need some board position filled by member clubs right from the start),  so then you have the prospect of the WoSFL coming under the de-facto control of the WRJFA/SJFA once all their own people are on board.  Trojan horse? a little bit conspiratorial perhaps but well.......

There was going to be that Senior/Junior line anyway under their original "done deal" - but this is just getting confusing now. Before it was going to be the same rules (fines and taxes) now there is confusion over where these will apply. I'm only referring to the West Region proposal. The WoSL (LL/EoSL version) is a new league so new rules obviously. What happens if five non Junior clubs apply - have they said where they slot in? There are 16 in the top division currently - do some of these lose their places when these others get added?

[AlanCamelonfan]

6 minutes ago, theesel1994 said:

There was going to be that Senior/Junior line anyway under their original "done deal" - but this is just getting confusing now. Before it was going to be the same rules (fines and taxes) now there is confusion over where these will apply. I'm only referring to the West Region proposal. The WoSL (LL/EoSL version) is a new league so new rules obviously. What happens if five non Junior clubs apply - have they said where they slot in? There are 16 in the top division currently - do some of these lose their places when these others get added?

i think they said anyone who was currently tier 6 so Bonnyton and theyd probably include glasgow uni as they are licensed would be tier 6 but anyone else would go in at the bottom

[clash city rocker]

2 minutes ago, theesel1994 said:

There was going to be that Senior/Junior line anyway under their original "done deal" - but this is just getting confusing now. Before it was going to be the same rules (fines and taxes) now there is confusion over where these will apply. I'm only referring to the West Region proposal. The WoSL (LL/EoSL version) is a new league so new rules obviously. What happens if five non Junior clubs apply - have they said where they slot in? There are 16 in the top division currently - do some of these lose their places when these others get added?

That's what a took from the meeting. Top 16 clubs ( premiership ) would be administered by LL the rest to preserve their history controlled by SJFA. Any senior club relegated would have dual membership , still entitled to play in big Scottish , Girvan was quoted. However having read so much speculation and conspiracies since then my head's in a bigger state than Texas.

[theesel1994]

2 minutes ago, AlanCamelonfan said:

i think they said anyone who was currently tier 6 so Bonnyton and theyd probably include glasgow uni as they are licensed would be tier 6 but anyone else would go in at the bottom

Which cups would they compete in? Bearing in mind someone has to organise the fixtures. Would the Tier 6 League have its own cups? (Again, I'm talking West Region proposal).

[AsimButtHitsASix]

Let's say this happens. WRJ Super league is basically a Lowland League West. That means no fines and no reinstatement fees. Why would, say, Kello go along with paying these taxes when their close neighbours don't? Either side of the previous split, be it Auchinleck Talbot or Nithsdale Wanderers, will be at an advantage they're not receiving.

"Thanks for supporting the grade in these difficult times. As a thank you we're expecting you to pay for things other clubs don't"

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

The sjfa encouraging large congregations of people during a viral epidemic, is there no low they wont stoop to? Biological warfare? This is shameful.

[Burnie_man]

10 minutes ago, theesel1994 said:

There was going to be that Senior/Junior line anyway under their original "done deal" - but this is just getting confusing now. Before it was going to be the same rules (fines and taxes) now there is confusion over where these will apply. I'm only referring to the West Region proposal. The WoSL (LL/EoSL version) is a new league so new rules obviously. What happens if five non Junior clubs apply - have they said where they slot in? There are 16 in the top division currently - do some of these lose their places when these others get added?

Well some problem areas, which don't appear to have been clarified are;

Will the LL be interested in running their version of the WoSFL in the first place given the plan has already been rejected by them?

Where would non-WRJFA clubs fit into this set-up? would they need to join the SJFA and become Junior?

Tier 7 and below, are there guarantees that they will be able to access SFA Licencing, U20 league and all the other benefits enjoyed by their east counterparts at that level?

Do player fines remain? does re-instatement remain? squad size restrictions remain? restriction on pre-season friendlies remain? permits for friendlies? etc etc etc 

How can the Junior Cup be fitted into the senior fixture calendar? 

Would senior clubs eg Cumbernauld Colts or Caledonian Braves, relegated to tier 7 need to become Junior ie join the SJFA?

Would clubs promoted to tier 5 LL keep their SJFA membership?

 

 

[Marshmallo]

#TogetherStronger

[AlanCamelonfan]

14 minutes ago, clash city rocker said:

That's what a took from the meeting. Top 16 clubs ( premiership ) would be administered by LL the rest to preserve their history controlled by SJFA. Any senior club relegated would have dual membership , still entitled to play in big Scottish , Girvan was quoted. However having read so much speculation and conspiracies since then my head's in a bigger state than Texas.

it sounds less complicated just to start again and let the sjfa go

[GordonS]

45 minutes ago, theesel1994 said:

I'm more meaning this planned League the West Region have. I'm aware the LL/EoSL will hand their WoSL over to the clubs. Again - lacking in detail from the West Region unless they have provided the clubs with more details than they have the supporters. At least the LL make their statements public.

Ah sorry, I misunderstood.