Junior football, what is the future?

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

The discussion/explanation will probably be something like this, - accept the changes required or accept the fact that the SJFA will fall by the wayside. Keep the West clubs together and the SJFA can survive. Lose the West clubs and it won't.

Youre making an assumption that every club will wish to remain members of the sjfa.

[Bestsinceslicebread]

I'm reading all this and seeing it from both sides but the junior side is really, worrying. I believe there are clubs who do not want to join the pyramid/seniors and wont say who I think as I have no proof but all this talk of all in etc... and the juniors winding up.  Not a chance, the junior hierarchy have looked as if they have been power struggling for the past two years trying to get their foot in the door for jobs and under negotiations the way they want. it hasn't happened and we are at the stage we are at.  All this talk of juniors joining ALL-IN,  Really, Really, then all the West region juniors have to say to the west junior teams, is :  APPLY RIGHT NOW TO THE LL AND YOU WILL GET IN, THE 63 LOT OF YOU but no there's negotiating this, negotiating that. Noticed someone said the Rooney said at the junior west meeting that the Scottish cup was SACROSANCT but that's only in junior minds. its just a cup ffs, and its nothing to do with the Senior/pyramid system and will only confuse things.   Also clubs that are not junior and finish bottom of tier 6, where do they go as they don't want to be members of the junior association, so that would mean they stay where they are and not be relegated.   It's too much hassle.  The LL know they will have enough to start a new WOS and if its 2 divisions then ever better.

I will add, after the PWG broke down and the LL starting one themselves the only reason they had the meeting recently with the West junior association is from pressure from the SFA to try and get the ALL-IN to happen.  I cant see it other that that reason why the LL would entertain the junior hierarchy

Edited March 24, 2020 by Bestsinceslicebread

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

Think that's one of the options Clydebank looked at for a new ground.

Where?

[LongTimeLurker]

Just now, Inanimate Carbon Rod said:

Where?

The Halgreen Avenue pitch that Drumchapel United might use that was mentioned earlier. Got a feeling of deja vu that way when I check it out on google maps but could be wrong.

[Beenzon-Toste]

No they're not. That's just lies.

What is?

[glensmad]

1 minute ago, Beenzon-Toste said:

25 minutes ago, glensmad said:

No they're not. That's just lies.

What is?

It is lies that the LL are proposing to wind up the WRSJFA.

The LL's only proposal is to form a WoSFL, and clubs can apply if they want. If they don't want, they can stay with the WRSJFA.

[Beenzon-Toste]

What is the basis of that comment? The LL has proposed starting a WoSFL, not winding up the WRJFA.

If the WRSJFA join en masse then that means there will be no need for a WRSJFA management committee.
How is that hard to understand?

[cmontheloknow]

6 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said:

The Halgreen Avenue pitch that Drumchapel United might use that was mentioned earlier. Got a feeling of deja vu that way when I check it out on google maps but could be wrong.

Drumchapel Utd have had a 25 year lease on it since 2016.

[Beenzon-Toste]

Youre making an assumption that every club will wish to remain members of the sjfa.

No I'm not. Clydebank and Kilwinning can leave, if that's what they want.

[Bestsinceslicebread]

1 minute ago, Beenzon-Toste said:

If the WRSJFA join en masse then that means there will be no need for a WRSJFA management committee.
How is that hard to understand?

But what's that got to do with the LL, absolutely nothing. They have never said the junior association wind up.
Clubs should leave and leave for one reason alone, to progress, under junior football there is a ceiling and they cant.  The ones who don't want to progress should be allowed to stay, if there are any who want to stay.

 

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

The Halgreen Avenue pitch that Drumchapel United might use that was mentioned earlier. Got a feeling of deja vu that way when I check it out on google maps but could be wrong.

We didnt look at any sites outside Clydebank.

[Stag Nation]

14 minutes ago, Beenzon-Toste said:

If the WRSJFA join en masse then that means there will be no need for a WRSJFA management committee.
How is that hard to understand?

But joining "en masse" is the WRSJFA's proposal, not the LL's. The LL's proposal is for interested clubs to apply.

So the only people who want to disband the WRSJFA are the WRSJFA management committee.

How is that hard to understand?

[Dylangt7]

2 minutes ago, Beenzon-Toste said:

If the WRSJFA join en masse then that means there will be no need for a WRSJFA management committee.
How is that hard to understand?

Its not, BUT thats not what you said. You know it and everyone else that can read knows it.

You said the LL are proposing to make the WRSJFA obsolete, they aren't.

In fact, If all West clubs don't apply or move over ( and as far as we are aware at least 17 haven't shown interest) I'm sure they would prefer for there still to be a WRSJFA so that clubs have a choice and are still playing football.

If 63 teams applied - and if history, especially in the East has taught us anything - they definitely wont. Only then would the WRSJFA become obsolete by default. No one can say its the LL's aim at all.  

That seems to be the fundamental difference here one group want opportunities for any clubs (that choose to) to play in the pyramid and get opportunities that a pyramid structure can offer. Its about playing football at all levels and ensuring the right infrastructure is in place for clubs, players and fans.

The other group from the messages they have put out and the points of support on here, are about the association(s)  themselves and about the legacy of the Scottish Cup and nothing much else as.

 

[Guest]

The sjfa and wrsjfa stance is really, really worrying here.

Concerned if they get any involvement is an understatement.

I now explore the LL to go their own way and stick to the application process they initially set out.

I said it a week ago that the real face would slip out from under the mask. Post by post it is getting clearer that the wrsjfa approach is aimed at 'saving' the sjfa and wrsjfa and to hell with those that are left.

They scream about no one left behind but are happy to throw the east and north under the bus whilst forcing their own clubs into something they might not want to be part of. Whilst using a national cup they dont own as a bargaining tool.

And all to join a pyramid set up they have belittled for years saying their own product was better.

The message for clubs is still clear, apply to the new wosfl and join it if it is what you want to do and feel is best for your club. A new league, a new direction.

[Dev]

Obviously all will be revealed very soon.

However, it is equally obvious that there are some WRJFA clubs which will say goodbye to the Juniors and there are some which are dead set against anything other than playing in the West Junior League(s).

Also there are some clubs which are sitting on the fence just now and they will be swayed by the outcome of today's meeting between the SJFA (alias West Region Juniors) and the Lowland League/EoS/SoS. If enough significant clubs go (e.g. Top Divisions or local derby clubs) that could swing it for them.

Gordon Ronney isn't a fool. He understands the situation fully. He understands that, unless the Lowland League really goes in for the kill, there will still be a West Juniors League next season (virus permitting) and this may have one or two Divisions. He is setting his stall out to lay blame for anything and everything associated with the significant weakening of the WRJFA on anybody but the Junior organisations and officials.

He is playing a blame game. He's given up on anything-else but, of course, the game means that he cannot come clean about that so bear with him!

The West Juniors are done. They could even lose all of the clubs by next season if the Lowland League really does go for the throat by extending the dead-line for applications - using the virus situation as the basis for doing that e.g. clubs have had difficulties making decisions due to the lack of meetings because of virus restrictions, etc.

It is a really sad situation, and totally unnecessary, as the SJFA has completely fowled up golden opportunities to show meaningful leadership (as opposed to what some might consider to be mean leadership) and to take control of semi-pro / non-league football.

However, out of all of this, hopefully, some good will come.

[cmontheloknow]

4 minutes ago, Dylangt7 said:

Its not, BUT thats not what you said. You know it and everyone else that can read knows it.

You said the LL are proposing to make the WRSJFA obsolete, they aren't.

In fact, If all West clubs don't apply or move over ( and as far as we are aware at least 17 haven't shown interest) I'm sure they would prefer for there still to be a WRSJFA so that clubs have a choice and are still playing football.

If 63 teams applied - and if history, especially in the East has taught us anything - they definitely wont. Only then would the WRSJFA become obsolete by default. No one can say its the LL's aim at all.  

That seems to be the fundamental difference here one group want opportunities for any clubs (that choose to) to play in the pyramid and get opportunities that a pyramid structure can offer. Its about playing football at all levels and ensuring the right infrastructure is in place for clubs, players and fans.

The other group from the messages they have put out and the points of support on here, are about the association(s)  themselves and about the legacy of the Scottish Cup and nothing much else as.

 

As the man himself said "salvation of the association".

[Dev]

22 minutes ago, cmontheloknow said:

Drumchapel Utd have had a 25 year lease on it since 2016.

They were offered it then so presumably it started a while later following sorting out of the precise terms, conditions, etc. The knock-on effect may be that this would give them more time to raise the funding and get organised. Guessing that the WoS would OK them using the Donald Dewar Centre Flood-lit cage until the new ground is ready?   

[cmontheloknow]

2 minutes ago, Dev said:

They were offered it then so presumably it started a while later following sorting out of the precise terms, conditions, etc. The knock-on effect may be that this would give them more time to raise the funding and get organised. Guessing that the WoS would OK them using the Donald Dewar Centre Flood-lit cage until the new ground is ready?   

The last streetview image of it is from Aug 19 (apparently) and it looked a bit unused! Anyone seen it recently?

[Doonhamer1969]

3 hours ago, Beenzon-Toste said:

Not if they all move in the one block. Which is what is being proposed by the WRSJFA.

Move in with current 4 leagues.

Integrate any new applicants to a suitable league within that system.

Allow all clubs to retain their membership of the SJFA if they wish.

Allow participation of the SJFA Scottish Junior Cup to those clubs.

Other clubs coming into the existing 4 leagues do not need to join the SJFA.

What's the problem?

Should also add that it means the current WRSJFA management will no longer exist and a new management/board will be set up by the new WOSL.

That all sounds fair enough...EXCEPT...What about the 17 clubs who DONT want to move to the pyramid and who didnt put a note of interest in to the WoS ?

[Beenzon-Toste]

Its not, BUT thats not what you said. You know it and everyone else that can read knows it.
You said the LL are proposing to make the WRSJFA obsolete, they aren't.
In fact, If all West clubs don't apply or move over ( and as far as we are aware at least 17 haven't shown interest) I'm sure they would prefer for there still to be a WRSJFA so that clubs have a choice and are still playing football.
If 63 teams applied - and if history, especially in the East has taught us anything - they definitely wont. Only then would the WRSJFA become obsolete by default. No one can say its the LL's aim at all.  
That seems to be the fundamental difference here one group want opportunities for any clubs (that choose to) to play in the pyramid and get opportunities that a pyramid structure can offer. Its about playing football at all levels and ensuring the right infrastructure is in place for clubs, players and fans.
The other group from the messages they have put out and the points of support on here, are about the association(s)  themselves and about the legacy of the Scottish Cup and nothing much else as.
 

I never at any time said the LL was proposing to make the WRSJFA obsolete.
The LL is proposing to set up a new WOSL.
The LL said they would set up a new management committee to run the new WOSL.
If all WRSJFA clubs decided to join the LL run WOSL then the WRSJFA would be surplus to requirements.