Junior football, what is the future?

[Hillonearth]

1 minute ago, San Starko Rover said:

 

Fair enough it’s an extreme example but the Bankies started at the bottom of the West leagues I assume? New team or not they’re bigger than many juniors in terms of fan base.

Again , horses for courses - they did, but to be pedantic the previous Clydebank are now the Airdrie SPFL franchise.

Although the current Clydebank are generally accepted as a continuation of the previous incarnation, they were effectively starting from nothing run by fans, not a pre-existing club with a settled infrastructure.

[San Starko Rover]

More than a new team, an entirely new club, so of course they would go to the bottom. They had no fan base until they opened their turnstiles for the first game. Are you suggesting a BSC Glasgow Juniors would go into the top division due to having a fan base of several hundred thousand in Glasgow?

 

Think you’ve misread what I was saying or missed the previous post Hilloneaeth was responding to, what I was saying is that presently EoS and East Juniors aren’t merging it’s new teams joining a league. I personally believe any team or teams joining a new league have to startat the bottom be it senior or Junior. Now if the SFA and SJFA actually look at a proper merger that would be a different story.

[HTG]

51 minutes ago, Robert James said:

Agreed

And BTW, I consider the stance taken LR and Bo'ness is disappointing and very risky. In the case of Linlithgow,  an SFA Member club,  the SFA may well withdraw the Scottish Cup entitlement for junior clubs who don't commit to the pyramid, once the situation in the West and North is sorted out . Girvan, Banks O'Dee, Golspie......and Glasgow Uni, need to realise this possibility.

Haud the bus here. Linlithgow Rose has committed to the pyramid. What they've not done is jump to a tune that says they're going next season. They're following the timeline developed by the SJFA in consultation with the SFA to create an orderly transition into the pyramid across all areas of Scotland. 

There is a leap here where folk are only focused on what is happening in the East because of the existence of a league which is right on the doorstep of a number of applicant clubs.  Let's take Dalkeith as an example. If Dalkeith was located in the suburbs of Glasgow, do you think they'd be applying to join the EoS or SoS Leagues? Of course they wouldn't. Their application is because it suits the club on a number of levels with reduced travel being a particular attraction. Edinburgh Utd the same if they're going. 

Do you think a club like Neilston for example would take a similar route if they were in Dumfries and Galloway every other week? 

Some clubs moving next year are almost being lauded as heroes for "breaking out". I'm vehemently pro pyramid and I desperately want to see Linlithgow Rose in it. I also want to see parity of opportunity for all clubs and whilst I completely understand the "if you're not fast you're last" approach that clubs have taken - because evidence based on past performance is not encouraging - that doesn't mean I think it is right.  

My aspiration is that someone will get a grip of all of this as a matter of some urgency and point us towards an integrated pathway which is orderly and logical. 

But this is Scotland and if we've learned anything, it is that orderly and logical are not familiar bedfellows with the Scottish football hierarchy. 

[Bell End]

Someone on another thread suggested an amalgamation of all the leagues with the EOS setup which seemed to make sense, & for the Fifers looking for a return to a Fife league, wasn't a kick in erse off it.  Teams who want to progress will & everything will level out after 4/5 years. However I fear We're stuck in the dark ages & usual bickering to halt sensible progress 

[LongTimeLurker]

11 minutes ago, HTG said:

...They're following the timeline developed by the SJFA in consultation with the SFA to create an orderly transition into the pyramid across all areas of Scotland...

Is there any evidence that's a dialogue rather than a monologue from Tom Johnston aimed at heading off EoS defections at the pass? If the EoS were talking about starting a west division if there was sufficient interest I suspect they would have checked it was OK to do so with the SFA first and only junior clubs that are actively in the process of getting licensed and move to one of the LL's feeders as part of that process are welcome in the SFA's pyramid. Things will be a lot clearer in a few months.

Edited April 7, 2018 by LongTimeLurker

[Burnie_man]

27 minutes ago, HTG said:

They're following the timeline developed by the SJFA in consultation with the SFA to create an orderly transition into the pyramid across all areas of Scotland.

A what?

[parkcircus]

42 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said:

Is there any evidence that's a dialogue rather than a monologue from Tom Johnston aimed at heading off EoS defections at the pass? If the EoS were talking about starting a west division if there was sufficient interest I suspect they would have checked it was OK to do so with the SFA first and only junior clubs that are actively in the process of getting licensed and move to one of the LL's feeders as part of that process are welcome in the SFA's pyramid. Things will be a lot clearer in a few months.

The EOS haven’t said they would start a WOS League, they’ve said if enough West clubs get together and form their own league then the EOS will help them with constitutional issues, contacts, and fixtures, setting up cups etc. I believe the Lowland have been contacted and don’t see an issue with a West league being formed, the only issue is will all Juniors West clubs move to this in 2019, or will clubs form a league for 2018 before the SJFA get round to it. Some clubs have been talking about it.

SJFA West meeting on the 26 April to see SJFA’s proposal for pyramid integration, their aim is to try and continue as is as the SJFA with access to the pyramid, let’s hope that includes a full fixture list like the rest of the pyramid or there’s not much point

[Kilbowie Benches]

It can’t carry on in the same haphazard way.

Today we have diddy cup games instead of important league games which will no doubt be played midweek.Its a farce and it’s one of the reasons clubs are looking for something better.

[HTG]

1 hour ago, Burnie_man said:

A what?

Lol - "timeline" is maybe ambitious. You'll have seen the response to the survey results. Whilst there may be any amount of scepticism, the clear message was that on the back of those results the SJFA would engage to explore a pathway to the pyramid at tier 6 in time for 2019/20. That's a timeline. Whether you, me or anyone else thinks it's achievable or not, that's what is happening. So the extent to which all parties will or won't engage in that process isn't actually known. 

[parkcircus]

Totally, most arnt bothered that much about the SFA License or the promotion opertunities as they’ll only be achievable by a few.

Having fixtures past the 14th April would help, what’s the hold up now?

When you get a free week, you’ve just to guess that it’s a free week because nothing posted on the fixture page, your clubs not contacted in any way, just to wait and see.

Also we asked for matches during Xmas and New Year and never got one, stupid rules like that don’t help. Never mind us playing 60% of our home games in the first 7 weeks then having two home league games in the next 200 days, 

[Burnie_man]

Lol - "timeline" is maybe ambitious. You'll have seen the response to the survey results. Whilst there may be any amount of scepticism, the clear message was that on the back of those results the SJFA would engage to explore a pathway to the pyramid at tier 6 in time for 2019/20. That's a timeline. Whether you, me or anyone else thinks it's achievable or not, that's what is happening. So the extent to which all parties will or won't engage in that process isn't actually known. 

Ok, we'll call it either creative writing or wishful thinking on your part [emoji12]

[superbigal]

Interesting that a team that voted to join the pyramid (Even though it is tougher in the North due to HFL requirement for floodlights) are jacking it in at the end of the season.

Newburgh Thistle in the North SL

[Born To Run]

9 minutes ago, superbigal said:

Interesting that a team that voted to join the pyramid (Even though it is tougher in the North due to HFL requirement for floodlights) are jacking it in at the end of the season.

Newburgh Thistle in the North SL

Have you got a link? Sad if true, seems to be a North team going every year recently.

[superbigal]

14 minutes ago, Born To Run said:

Have you got a link? Sad if true, seems to be a North team going every year recently.

From Fitba North usually reliable

 

This isn't a merger. Newburgh are folding. The management team and some committee members are moving to Buchanhaven Hearts with the hope that some players will follow.

[Burnie_man]

We played them when they were Wilsons XI three or four name changes ago.  They never had any support then either. Basically an amateur team playing Junior.

[andy25]

Totally, most arnt bothered that much about the SFA License or the promotion opertunities as they’ll only be achievable by a few.
Having fixtures past the 14th April would help, what’s the hold up now?
When you get a free week, you’ve just to guess that it’s a free week because nothing posted on the fixture page, your clubs not contacted in any way, just to wait and see.
Also we asked for matches during Xmas and New Year and never got one, stupid rules like that don’t help. Never mind us playing 60% of our home games in the first 7 weeks then having two home league games in the next 200 days, 

You played Talbot at Beechwood on 30th December.

[Cyclizine]

We played them when they were Wilsons XI three or four name changes ago.  They never had any support then either. Basically an amateur team playing Junior.

Pretty much, they were Bridge of Don Thistle at the time and playing at Hillhead until the University joined the juniors (the NRJFA didn't allow two juniors to groundshare). They then moved to groundshare with Newburgh Thistle amateurs and eventually changed their name. I presume the amateur team will continue, it was never really a merger as such.

[craigkillie]

7 hours ago, Hillonearth said:

The flipside to this of course is that by doing so the EoS are taking a sensible and pragmatic approach, with full recognition of the fact that at least some of the new clubs are far stronger than some of their existing members. They appear to be dealing with this with their eyes open rather than adopting a hidebound approach, which is encouraging.

And no, in the extremely unlikely hypothetical instance of a comparatively huge club like Ayr going Junior I actually don't think they'd be papped into the ADL to work their way up.

One of the sticking points with Junior participation in the pyramid back in 2013 was that the SJFA wouldn't guarantee that Junior sides relegated out of the Lowland League would be granted access to the top tier.  Why would anyone assume they would behave any differently if a new club joined?

[parkcircus]

58 minutes ago, andy25 said:

You played Talbot at Beechwood on 30th December.

Yip should have had a fixture on the 23rd as well

[Hillonearth]

32 minutes ago, craigkillie said:

One of the sticking points with Junior participation in the pyramid back in 2013 was that the SJFA wouldn't guarantee that Junior sides relegated out of the Lowland League would be granted access to the top tier.  Why would anyone assume they would behave any differently if a new club joined?

Although it's all hypothetical once again, unfortunately that scenario was never tested for the brinkmanship on the part of the SJFA it so obviously was in hindsight.

I think the key phrase there is "wouldn't guarantee"....much as if Hearts or Hibs went tits up and subsequently reformed they wouldn't be coming back in at EoS  level,  in reality a Talbot or Pollok would have been unlikely to have been asked to fight their way up from the ADL or Central Second respectively should they have been relegated from the LL.