Junior football, what is the future?

[cmontheloknow]

5 hours ago, Ginaro said:

Minimum for entry level is 90 x 56m (98.4 x 61.2 yds), bronze is 95 x 60m (103.9 x 65.6 yds), think Newlandsfield is big enough for the former?

Suppose the only way you'd know the impact would be to do the detailed design work showing light levels at various points around the ground, like I've seen on planning applications before where houses are closeby.

Yeah wouldn't get bronze as Newlandsfield is 102x64 yds.

A fair number of Junior grounds have tight surfaces though.

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

Yeah wouldn't get bronze as Newlandsfield is 102x64 yds.
A fair number of Junior grounds have tight surfaces though.

Can always expand, lengthen behind the goal and remove some of the uncovered terrace/track, sorted.

[Goalie Hamish]

Ma wee man in Dundee wis telling me this wis a done deal but awe you bawbags are still at it so it cannae be

[AlanCamelonfan]

11 hours ago, Goalie Hamish said:

Ma wee man in Dundee wis telling me this wis a done deal but awe you bawbags are still at it so it cannae be

If it was done why is it not reported anywhere? It mat well happen to some degree 

[cmontheloknow]

19 hours ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said:

Can always expand, lengthen behind the goal and remove some of the uncovered terrace/track, sorted.

Not a lot of land to do that with though - the goals are already cut into the terraces. More scope to widen than to lengthen.

[Sunrise]

 

“Junior grade” patter in 2019 is the worst. Well, nae as bad as the Ayr United fan patter tbh.

 

And yes, I do the Largs Thistle Twitter...

[Sergeant Wilson]

4 hours ago, cmontheloknow said:

Not a lot of land to do that with though - the goals are already cut into the terraces. More scope to widen than to lengthen.

Do you know why the size is an issue for licensing? Pollok, and other, have pitches that are within the rules of the game. If you can get away with grass, hybrid, artificial etc, why should the dimensions be an issue?

[Kilbowie Benches]

3 minutes ago, Sergeant Wilson said:

Do you know why the size is an issue for licensing? Pollok, and other, have pitches that are within the rules of the game. If you can get away with grass, hybrid, artificial etc, why should the dimensions be an issue?

Because the SFA say so!

[garrellburn]

10 minutes ago, Kilbowie Benches said:

Because the SFA say so!

The original laws of the game were drawn up by the (English) football association. nowadays it is FIFA who administer them. There are different requirements for dimensions of the playing surface depending on the grade of football they apply to. The SFA simply police the laws as set by others, or are supposed to, how often have seen a ref check the dimensions of a pitch? although we did have one complain about the height of a corner flag a couple of years back. 

[cmontheloknow]

1 hour ago, Sergeant Wilson said:

Do you know why the size is an issue for licensing? Pollok, and other, have pitches that are within the rules of the game. If you can get away with grass, hybrid, artificial etc, why should the dimensions be an issue?

Well you cannot play European football on anything less than 110 x 70 yds (AFAIK). So the Gold licence I think has that as a benchmark. But for smaller clubs, to get silver / bronze, it is deemed necessary to be of a certain size. Some clubs have widened.  Annan again - I think they lost their roadside terrace to accommodate...?

[Glenconner]

2 minutes ago, cmontheloknow said:

Well you cannot play European football on anything less than 110 x 70 yds (AFAIK). So the Gold licence I think has that as a benchmark. But for smaller clubs, to get silver / bronze, it is deemed necessary to be of a certain size. Some clubs have widened.  Annan again - I think they lost their roadside terrace to accommodate...?

So that’s why it’s a three sided ground.

[cmontheloknow]

34 minutes ago, Glenconner said:

So that’s why it’s a three sided ground.

https://spfl.co.uk/news/another-step-forward-for-progressive-annan

“When the 3 G pitch was laid in the summer of 2012 we lost the terrace that ran alongside North Street as the pitch was widened. We became a 3 sided venue with the Main Stand and a terrace behind one goal and a flat area behind the goal at the Social Club end.”

[GNU_Linux]

There's an updated licensing manual on the SFA website: https://www.scottishfa.co.uk/media/4676/scottish-fa-club-licensing-manual-2019.pdf
Differences to 2018 in the ground section - 5.7 floodlights required and 5.15 Disability Access Office now only required for gold/silver, bronze just needs to appoint a nominated individual to implement club policy and/or make changes.

Further upates to licensing requirements

[Robert James]

23 hours ago, GNU_Linux said:

Further updates to licensing requirements

 

 

Under the published 2019 SFA Manual the criteria for floodlights is :

"ENTRY : Clubs are required to have a floodlight system at the ground. This version of the Manual, referenced as 2019, will apply during the domestic season 2018/19."

I have failed to locate any derogation which gives any  protected ('historical') rights to existing SFA Member clubs, who do not currently have floodlights. Has anyone found any such protection rights, or is aware that they have been approved ?

[FairWeatherFan]

49 minutes ago, Robert James said:

Under the published 2019 SFA Manual the criteria for floodlights is :

"ENTRY : Clubs are required to have a floodlight system at the ground. This version of the Manual, referenced as 2019, will apply during the domestic season 2018/19."

I have failed to locate any derogation which gives any  protected ('historical') rights to existing SFA Member clubs, who do not currently have floodlights. Has anyone found any such protection rights, or is aware that they have been approved ?

Those involved with this were given the updated manual in advance of it going public with notes on any changes. Or at least that was my take going by some posts like the one quoted below in another topic.

On 12/12/2018 at 21:36, Hossy87 said:

5.7 - Released by the SFA last night for new Licensing Criteria for Entry Level.  

Unless you are a current license holder, any new applicant will require floodlights.

 

Hopefully helps.

That's where the mention of derogation applications will be considered for member clubs that don't currently have floodlights. The mention of length of time that would be acceptable until seems to come from people asking follow up questions to the SFA email.

As for the mention of "This version of the Manual, referenced as 2019, will apply during the domestic season 2018/19"  this only appears as part of section 1.5 of the UEFA Club Licensing section of the manual. So that's for clubs hoping to be involved in Europe next season.

The National Club Licensing section that will apply to the majority of clubs has something similar but doesn't state a particular season only the year 2019.

 

[Robert James]

19 hours ago, FairWeatherFan said:

Those involved with this were given the updated manual in advance of it going public with notes on any changes. Or at least that was my take going by some posts like the one quoted below in another topic.

That's where the mention of derogation applications will be considered for member clubs that don't currently have floodlights. The mention of length of time that would be acceptable until seems to come from people asking follow up questions to the SFA email.

As for the mention of "This version of the Manual, referenced as 2019, will apply during the domestic season 2018/19"  this only appears as part of section 1.5 of the UEFA Club Licensing section of the manual. So that's for clubs hoping to be involved in Europe next season.

The National Club Licensing section that will apply to the majority of clubs has something similar but doesn't state a particular season only the year 2019.

 

Thanks for the additional information. 

The Licensing reference stating year  "2019" doesn't   :

(1) clarify the situation for junior clubs (without floodlights) currently compiling/submitting their licence applications (under the 2017/18 criteria) for consideration before April 2019

(2) state whether existing SFA member clubs like Golspie Sutherland, Vale of Leithen, Girvan, etc,  will be expected to have floodlights, when their current licence comes up for renewal, or whether they will have exemption from this new requirement.

"Derogations" regarding floodlights (if applicable) are unclear.

  

 

[FairWeatherFan]

1 hour ago, Robert James said:

Thanks for the additional information. 

The Licensing reference stating year  "2019" doesn't   :

(1) clarify the situation for junior clubs (without floodlights) currently compiling/submitting their licence applications (under the 2017/18 criteria) for consideration before April 2019

(2) state whether existing SFA member clubs like Golspie Sutherland, Vale of Leithen, Girvan, etc,  will be expected to have floodlights, when their current licence comes up for renewal, or whether they will have exemption from this new requirement.

"Derogations" regarding floodlights (if applicable) are unclear.

  

 

I don't think Junior clubs can apply at the minute due to not officially being in the pyramid and with one day left in 2018 there's only Girvan likely to be effected by this.

Better to direct the questions to the EoS  or Lowland League forums. Since that's where most of the news surrounding this has come from due to a number of those clubs going through the application process.

[Baxter's Nutmeg]

1 hour ago, Robert James said:

Thanks for the additional information. 

The Licensing reference stating year  "2019" doesn't   :

(1) clarify the situation for junior clubs (without floodlights) currently compiling/submitting their licence applications (under the 2017/18 criteria) for consideration before April 2019

(2) state whether existing SFA member clubs like Golspie Sutherland, Vale of Leithen, Girvan, etc,  will be expected to have floodlights, when their current licence comes up for renewal, or whether they will have exemption from this new requirement.

"Derogations" regarding floodlights (if applicable) are unclear.

  

 

Derogations for current license holders without floodlights is likely to be 3 years.

[locheeboy]

11 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

I don't think Junior clubs can apply at the minute due to not officially being in the pyramid and with one day left in 2018 there's only Girvan likely to be effected by this.

Better to direct the questions to the EoS  or Lowland League forums. Since that's where most of the news surrounding this has come from due to a number of those clubs going through the application process.

Junior clubs have always been able to apply. Linlithgow did it then they changed the rules to any club being granted a licence had to join a Senior league.  Having spoke with Laura Anderson at the SFA any club who already has a licence but does not have floodlights can apply for derogation. Clubs who have applied but not been granted one yet will require floodlights with no derogation open to them. This may change as I know clubs who have paid their money are hoping the SFA will open discussion with them for derogation to apply to them as well. I hope those clubs get a fair hearing. 

Edited December 30, 2018 by locheeboy

[Robert James]

5 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

I don't think Junior clubs can apply at the minute due to not officially being in the pyramid and with one day left in 2018 there's only Girvan likely to be effected by this.

Better to direct the questions to the EoS  or Lowland League forums. Since that's where most of the news surrounding this has come from due to a number of those clubs going through the application process.

21  ex-junior clubs currently playing in the EoSL, but are - "Not officially in the pyramid" !

Why not/what rule is this ?