Junior football, what is the future?

[AlanCamelonfan]

10 minutes ago, GNU_Linux said:

have the sjfa ever upated clubs on the PWG process since that Maxwell email in October?

Clearly not and by sounds of it sounds like dead in the water. If it wasn't then Larry would be here arguing the toss

[Guest]

48 minutes ago, Vollyman said:

The SFA have changed the goalposts with the new floodlight rules plus the LL are now talking about a LL2. This would mean junior clubs without a licence could only enter the pyramid at tier 7. Many clubs will find it difficult to raise the finance to enable them to gain a licence.

The most expensive part of any licence will be for those without floodlights, with a covered stand then toilet facilities coming 2nd and 3rd thereafter. Most of the current larger junior sides from the east and west have these or could fund them over a 3 year period by dropping their wage budget.... if they truly wanted to become a licensed club. 

That being said, if a club doesn't want licensed then none of that will be a concern and nothing will fundamentally change, if you aren't licensed now then the only thing that will change will be losing the tag of a junior side. Right now there is no access to the pyramid because of the junior/senior split, access to the LL and spfl is for licensed clubs, as is the big Scottish Cup, but clubs don't have to go there automatically. If they don't have the requirements, spend some money from the playing budget on the ground for a couple of seasons and get sponsorship, then put that money back into the playing budget therafter..... 

It amazes me how people find the concept of modern football grounds being a negative and view driving up standards as a blocker for progression. I fully back the change to licence criteria, it means that clubs who make sure their entire club functions well (on and off the park) are rewarded, rather than those who happily plough all their money at players and forget about the other aspects of their club, searching for short term on park success to the detriment of long term full club sustainability and progression. 

[Baxter's Nutmeg]

11 hours ago, GNU_Linux said:

have the sjfa ever upated clubs on the PWG process since that Maxwell email in October?

Burnieman has been updating this on the threads acrosss the various forums, and seems up to date with everything. From reading his posts it looks like there a lot of things still to be ironed out, and it’s pretty much certain that this won’t happen for next season.

[glensmad]

12 hours ago, Vollyman said:

The SFA have changed the goalposts with the new floodlight rules plus the LL are now talking about a LL2. This would mean junior clubs without a licence could only enter the pyramid at tier 7. Many clubs will find it difficult to raise the finance to enable them to gain a licence.

I'm not sure that's entirely correct. Yes, floodlights are now a requirement for licensing, but licensing is not a requirement for tier 6 as it stands at the moment.

[Burnie_man]

1 hour ago, Baxter's Nutmeg said:

Burnieman has been updating this on the threads acrosss the various forums, and seems up to date with everything. From reading his posts it looks like there a lot of things still to be ironed out, and it’s pretty much certain that this won’t happen for next season.

I don't have any special insight into what's going on, I just post opinion based on what info is out there from talking to people, posts on here and those minutes from the EoS.  Whether 2 plus 2 equals 4 or 5 remains to be seen, but it does seem that Juniors into the Pyramid next season isn't going to happen. We'll see.

[Beenzon-Toste]

1 hour ago, Baxter's Nutmeg said:

Burnieman has been updating this on the threads acrosss the various forums, and seems up to date with everything. From reading his posts it looks like there a lot of things still to be ironed out, and it’s pretty much certain that this won’t happen for next season.

I'm fair looking forward to this thread later tonight or early tomorrow after the news comes filtering out of tonight's meeting of the West Region clubs at Hampden.

Fully expecting Burnieman to go into melt-down after all his scaremongering and anti-junior shit-stirring comes back and smacks him right in his arse.

Here's what I reckon is on the cards for tonight -

Clubs informed that they are now part of the SFA Pyramid and will be in at level 6 - Premiership, Level 7 - Championship, Level 8 - League 1 and Level 9 - League 2.

No need for any more talk of a WoSL, SFA won't sanction it.

Clubs that get a licence and win the Premiership will enter play-offs for promotion into LL.

Clydebank will stay put because the route back to the 'Senior Leagues' has now been provided and this satisfies their AGM decision.

League reconstruction will be discussed to allow for an early finish of the Premiership leaders for the purposes of the play-offs.

Discipline procedures will be aligned with the SFA.

[Midge]

10 minutes ago, Beenzon-Toste said:

I'm fair looking forward to this thread later tonight or early tomorrow after the news comes filtering out of tonight's meeting of the West Region clubs at Hampden.

Fully expecting Burnieman to go into melt-down after all his scaremongering and anti-junior shit-stirring comes back and smacks him right in his arse.

 

You and me both mate.

[Arthurlie1981]

I'm fair looking forward to this thread later tonight or early tomorrow after the news comes filtering out of tonight's meeting of the West Region clubs at Hampden.
Fully expecting Burnieman to go into melt-down after all his scaremongering and anti-junior shit-stirring comes back and smacks him right in his arse.
Here's what I reckon is on the cards for tonight -
Clubs informed that they are now part of the SFA Pyramid and will be in at level 6 - Premiership, Level 7 - Championship, Level 8 - League 1 and Level 9 - League 2.
No need for any more talk of a WoSL, SFA won't sanction it.
Clubs that get a licence and win the Premiership will enter play-offs for promotion into LL.
Clydebank will stay put because the route back to the 'Senior Leagues' has now been provided and this satisfies their AGM decision.
League reconstruction will be discussed to allow for an early finish of the Premiership leaders for the purposes of the play-offs.
Discipline procedures will be aligned with the SFA.

I hope your right with the structure as it is the best way forward.

[Marten]

28 minutes ago, Beenzon-Toste said:

I'm fair looking forward to this thread later tonight or early tomorrow after the news comes filtering out of tonight's meeting of the West Region clubs at Hampden.

Fully expecting Burnieman to go into melt-down after all his scaremongering and anti-junior shit-stirring comes back and smacks him right in his arse.

Here's what I reckon is on the cards for tonight -

Clubs informed that they are now part of the SFA Pyramid and will be in at level 6 - Premiership, Level 7 - Championship, Level 8 - League 1 and Level 9 - League 2.

No need for any more talk of a WoSL, SFA won't sanction it.

Clubs that get a licence and win the Premiership will enter play-offs for promotion into LL.

Clydebank will stay put because the route back to the 'Senior Leagues' has now been provided and this satisfies their AGM decision.

League reconstruction will be discussed to allow for an early finish of the Premiership leaders for the purposes of the play-offs.

Discipline procedures will be aligned with the SFA.

Why would Burnieman, or anyone else, go in a meltdown if that happens? I'd be very happy with it, and I'm sure he will be as well. The west isn't the issue, the west juniors should be able to slot in the pyramid quite easily if the will is there on all sides. 

[Burnie_man]

I'm fair looking forward to this thread later tonight or early tomorrow after the news comes filtering out of tonight's meeting of the West Region clubs at Hampden. Fully expecting Burnieman to go into melt-down after all his scaremongering and anti-junior shit-stirring comes back and smacks him right in his arse.

Here's what I reckon is on the cards for tonight -

Clubs informed that they are now part of the SFA Pyramid and will be in at level 6 - Premiership, Level 7 - Championship, Level 8 - League 1 and Level 9 - League 2.

No need for any more talk of a WoSL, SFA won't sanction it.

Clubs that get a licence and win the Premiership will enter play-offs for promotion into LL.

Clydebank will stay put because the route back to the 'Senior Leagues' has now been provided and this satisfies their AGM decision.

League reconstruction will be discussed to allow for an early finish of the Premiership leaders for the purposes of the play-offs.

Discipline procedures will be aligned with the SFA.

 

Nice try, but as has been explained over the last few months, it doesnt happen without agreement of all leagues. Fairly simple stuff to understand. 

 

However if this is solely related to the West Region, great, welcome aboard. Nobody has a problem with the west.

 

However, none of this has been presented to PWG for agreement.

 

[Beenzon-Toste]

9 minutes ago, Marten said:

Why would Burnieman, or anyone else, go in a meltdown if that happens? I'd be very happy with it, and I'm sure he will be as well. The west isn't the issue, the west juniors should be able to slot in the pyramid quite easily if the will is there on all sides. 

Because he's been desperately trying to instigate a breakaway in the West by scaremongering teams into believing that there will be no entry for the juniors. He's also scared that this will also signal to the East Region that they will also be in at tier 6. Which in turn may lead to some of those that left last year having a re-think about their own situation.

[Vollyman]

I'm not sure that's entirely correct. Yes, floodlights are now a requirement for licensing, but licensing is not a requirement for tier 6 as it stands at the moment.

Posts on EOS forum suggest that only clubs with a licence would be admitted to LL2 which would become tier 6

[Fife Journeyman]

I'm fair looking forward to this thread later tonight or early tomorrow after the news comes filtering out of tonight's meeting of the West Region clubs at Hampden.
Fully expecting Burnieman to go into melt-down after all his scaremongering and anti-junior shit-stirring comes back and smacks him right in his arse.
Here's what I reckon is on the cards for tonight -
Clubs informed that they are now part of the SFA Pyramid and will be in at level 6 - Premiership, Level 7 - Championship, Level 8 - League 1 and Level 9 - League 2.
No need for any more talk of a WoSL, SFA won't sanction it.
Clubs that get a licence and win the Premiership will enter play-offs for promotion into LL.
Clydebank will stay put because the route back to the 'Senior Leagues' has now been provided and this satisfies their AGM decision.
League reconstruction will be discussed to allow for an early finish of the Premiership leaders for the purposes of the play-offs.
Discipline procedures will be aligned with the SFA.

That's what everyone expects to happen in the West and changes nothing as there won't be many eligible for promotion to LL.
The East is the big issue. In fact it's not a big issue as bar 2/3 Tayside clubs unhappy at not getting games against there historic opponents in Fife and Lothians no other ERJFA club are making any noises perhaps possibly Fauldhouse.
Unless the boundary is moved from LL/HL I can't see anything changing.
I can't see anyone sanctioning another East feeder at tier 6 for ERJFA teams.

The other issue is the Tayside clubs who are banging the drum are a good bit away from licencing so they couldn't get promoted to LL even if they did get in at tier 6.

[Burnie_man]

Because he's been desperately trying to instigate a breakaway in the West by scaremongering teams into believing that there will be no entry for the juniors. He's also scared that this will also signal to the East Region that they will also be in at tier 6. Which in turn may lead to some of those that left last year having a re-think about their own situation.

Me, a poster on PB trying to cause rebellion by quoting facts [emoji23] [emoji23] [emoji23] [emoji23]

[Beenzon-Toste]

Meltdown started early.

[Robert James]

1 minute ago, Marten said:

Why would Burnieman, or anyone else, go in a meltdown if that happens? I'd be very happy with it, and I'm sure he will be as well. The west isn't the issue, the west juniors should be able to slot in the pyramid quite easily if the will is there on all sides. 

Absolutely. Having the West Region clubs in the pyramid, would enhance it considerably. Let's hope a formal announcement is made, and is unambiguous ?

If the SFA also makes it clear that it won't allow 2 pyramid feeder leagues in the East Region, and if there is an agreement with the Highland League that the North Region juniors, and the North Caledonian League to be formally recognised as pyramid feeder leagues, it only leaves the contentious issue about junior clubs north of the Tay Bridge, to be resolved. 

 

[Burnie_man]

Meltdown started early.

I'm looking forward to the west coming into the Pyramid, long overdue.

However there is no agreement yet, but there probably wont be any objections as all PWG have agreed on the need for a west league.

You're trying to stir an argument that isn't there, and I'm sceptical about what you've posted.

[Marten]

6 minutes ago, Beenzon-Toste said:

Because he's been desperately trying to instigate a breakaway in the West by scaremongering teams into believing that there will be no entry for the juniors. He's also scared that this will also signal to the East Region that they will also be in at tier 6. Which in turn may lead to some of those that left last year having a re-think about their own situation.

He has been pretty clear that he doesn't expect the west juniors to be in the pyramid by next season, not that he is against it. He indicated more than once that the west just slotting in would be the preferred option, but there is nothing wrong with talking about alternatives if that doesn't happen.

If the west joins, that's fine. I just can't see the east being allowed to join in the same way. EOS en ERJFA (south of Tay, providing the boundary stays the same) should just merge into one. There is no valid argument for having both. As said before, there is no real difference between senior & junior non-league, it's all non-league and we have to get rid of this artificial divide.

[Beenzon-Toste]

6 minutes ago, Robert James said:

Absolutely. Having the West Region clubs in the pyramid, would enhance it considerably. Let's hope a formal announcement is made, and is unambiguous ?

If the SFA also makes it clear that it won't allow 2 pyramid feeder leagues in the East Region, and if there is an agreement with the Highland League that the North Region juniors, and the North Caledonian League to be formally recognised as pyramid feeder leagues, it only leaves the contentious issue about junior clubs north of the Tay Bridge, to be resolved. 

 

I doubt very much if the SFA gives a damn about 2 feeder leagues in the East. There will effectively be 2 feeders in the west if you consider that the SoSL comes into it.

I don't get why everyone is so scared of the East Region feeder. Seemingly, those clubs that are left in it won't get anywhere near the LL.

[GNU_Linux]

I doubt very much if the SFA gives a damn about 2 feeder leagues in the East. There will effectively be 2 feeders in the west if you consider that the SoSL comes into it.
I don't get why everyone is so scared of the East Region feeder. Seemingly, those clubs that are left in it won't get anywhere near the LL.

the SOSL covers D&G the west region doesnt (there are two outliers in Bonnyton & Kello). Having the EOS & ERJFA is much different as there is clear geographical encroaching by something like 20 clubs.