Junior football, what is the future?

[Kilbowie Benches]

10 minutes ago, Robert James said:

Next season ex-junior clubs playing in the EoS, will benefit considerably because :-

* one or two of them will be playing in the Lowland League at Tier 5 in 2019/20

 * up to a dozen additional  EoS clubs will have been awarded an SFA Licence, giving them on-going entry into the  Scottish Cup

* the new EoS Premier Division (Tier 6) will be more competitive in 2019/20, than the 3 Conferences have been this season (essential as they are as an interim arrangement) 

* some current ERJFA clubs will probably have moved to the EoS for 2019/20

* EoS Tier 7 Divisions may well be organised horizontally on a geographical basis, rather than having vertical Tiers 7 & 8 etc

* traditional local derbies will increase attendances and enhance sponsorship opportunities 

* additional clubs can participate in the EoS/Lowland Under 20s competition, if they wish to do so

* "pyramid" clubs without an SFA licence, can work towards obtaining  one in the future, should they decide to do so (on a voluntary basis).

I am looking forward to 2019/20. Are you ?

Or they could just stay and be at tier 6 in the ERJFA apply for their license with a better chance of making the play off for the LL.

[AlanCamelonfan]

2 minutes ago, Kilbowie Benches said:

Or they could just stay and be at tier 6 in the ERJFA apply for their license with a better chance of making the play off for the LL.

Or not as they won't be in the pyramid 

[FairWeatherFan]

10 minutes ago, Kilbowie Benches said:

Or they could just stay and be at tier 6 in the ERJFA apply for their license with a better chance of making the play off for the LL.

20 clubs under the Lowland League area. Only 6 are in the Super League just now.

For the majority they won't be thinking about tiers but what clubs they'll be playing on a regular basis.

[Robert James]

1 hour ago, Kilbowie Benches said:

Or they could just stay and be at tier 6 in the ERJFA apply for their license with a better chance of making the play off for the LL.

Hello Kilbowie Benches !

On one of my posts a week or two ago, I asked you to confirm who your own "My Team" is.  You didn't respond, which is disappointing.

I also  pointed out that I considered it unlikely that your club is Clydebank  (which  your 'user' name suggests), as your views/posts don't seem to reflect those of the Bankies. Again you didn't respond.   

Why ?

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

Hello Kilbowie Benches !
On one of my posts a week or two ago, I asked you to confirm who your own "My Team" is.  You didn't respond, which is disappointing.
I also  pointed out that I considered it unlikely that your club is Clydebank  (which  your 'user' name suggests), as your views/posts don't seem to reflect those of the Bankies. Again you didn't respond.   
Why ?

Bankies dont have an official stance as far as im aware. Also there are several different views on the next steps amongst the Clydebank support, most have decided that remaining in the west sjfa is for them and others want the club to leave. The board havent held an egm to propose a change to the stance of going to the eosl so that is where the club is going currently, however they require a majority vote of trust members to change that and may quite easily reach that majority. Hardly any of us know whats actually going on and are very much in the dark.
Benches is from my experience a very decent guy despite my having very differing views on this particular matter.

[Kilbowie Benches]

6 hours ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said:

Bankies dont have an official stance as far as im aware. Also there are several different views on the next steps amongst the Clydebank support, most have decided that remaining in the west sjfa is for them and others want the club to leave. The board havent held an egm to propose a change to the stance of going to the eosl so that is where the club is going currently, however they require a majority vote of trust members to change that and may quite easily reach that majority. Hardly any of us know whats actually going on and are very much in the dark.
Benches is from my experience a very decent guy despite my having very differing views on this particular matter.

The vote was taken when tier 6 was on offer in the EoSL and when the West Juniors weren’t going to be in the pyramid at tier 6 either.

Things have moved on a lot since last year and it makes no sense whatsoever for the club to waste money on travel and inconvenience supporters when what we want is available where we are.

Access to tier 6 and SFA licensing is what we want.

 

[Robert James]

7 hours ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said:

47 minutes ago, Kilbowie Benches said:

The vote was taken when tier 6 was on offer in the EoSL and when the West Juniors weren’t going to be in the pyramid at tier 6 either.

Things have moved on a lot since last year and it makes no sense whatsoever for the club to waste money on travel and inconvenience supporters when what we want is available where we are.

Access to tier 6 and SFA licensing is what we want.

Bankies dont have an official stance as far as im aware. Also there are several different views on the next steps amongst the Clydebank support, most have decided that remaining in the west sjfa is for them and others want the club to leave. The board havent held an egm to propose a change to the stance of going to the eosl so that is where the club is going currently, however they require a majority vote of trust members to change that and may quite easily reach that majority. Hardly any of us know whats actually going on and are very much in the dark.
Benches is from my experience a very decent guy despite my having very differing views on this particular matter.

Very informative, and an interesting dilemma for the club.  

Whilst I can't claim to be a Bankies supporter (and in fact I opposed the merger with "Shire" to become "ES Clydebank" all those years ago), I would nevertheless like to see  Clydebank return to the Scottish League in the not too distant future.

Thanks to both of you.

[AlanCamelonfan]

57 minutes ago, Kilbowie Benches said:

The vote was taken when tier 6 was on offer in the EoSL and when the West Juniors weren’t going to be in the pyramid at tier 6 either.

Things have moved on a lot since last year and it makes no sense whatsoever for the club to waste money on travel and inconvenience supporters when what we want is available where we are.

Access to tier 6 and SFA licensing is what we want.

 

It does make more sensefor  Clydebank to stay west. But the question is will the west get in without the east

[Robert James]

1 minute ago, AlanCamelonfan said:

It does make more sensefor  Clydebank to stay west. But the question is will the west get in without the east

The West should seize the opportunity IF  its clubs really want to join the pyramid, and act now.  The East, Tayside, and the North are entirely different situations, which won't be resolved easily because  :

* 2 overlapping East pyramid feeder leagues in the same area, would make the SFA look totally inept (and a laughing stock ?).  In England, the Southern & Isthmian Leagues overlapped prior to the pyramid forming, and the English Football Association determined, and established different areas for each, to avoid 'duplication/overlapping'  once the pyramid was formed. The FA also reviews club allocations each year, to remove (wherever possible) any anomalies created by promotion and relegation  within the English non league structure (** see below)   

* the SFA is unlikely to move the Highland/Lowland boundary in the near future, if at all, so neither  the Lowland nor the EoS Leagues cannot accept clubs north of Tayside, even if it wanted to do this (which is unlikely) 

* the HFL has not agreed to North or Tayside juniors becoming feeder leagues at tier 6 (embracing relegation & promotion), and the senior North Caledonian League hasn't been involved in any pyramid discussions as far as I am aware, even though it covers an entirely different area of Scotland (which doesn't have any SJFA  representation) and shouldn't be excluded, if the pyramid is extended nationwide.

(** Footnote : there is an anomaly regarding 5 Welsh clubs, as Cardiff, Swansea, Newport, Wrexham and Merthyr have retained their original (English) FA membership, and continue to participate in the English pyramid) 

 

[superbigal]

It is.  There are no senior leagues that encroach on the same area at the same level in the Pyramid. That's before even mentioning HL/LL line.

The SoS doesn't encroach on the EoS, and any future WoS/WRJFA won't encroach on either of them.  There wont be a divide down the middle of the areas they cover unlike EoS/ERJFA, Fife being the obvious example being split 9 clubs v 7, and West Lothian/Falkirk, 9 clubs v 5. 

I'm sure you'll agree it makes absolutely no sense to encourage this divide instead of seeking a resolution to it.

I'm only playing devils advocate as you are aware.

To push this further would bonnyton thistle be told they have to leave the sos to join a new west.

 

 

[Burnie_man]

I'm only playing devils advocate as you are aware.
To push this further would bonnyton thistle be told they have to leave the sos to join a new west.

Why were Berwick rangers reserves allowed to join the eos?
Why were they not redirected to the sos ?

Berwick are in EoS territory, nowhere near Dumfries and Galloway.

I think if and when the West comes on board the boundaries will be defined going forward, I doubt anyone will be forced to move.

Bonnyton may want to move, they may not. Glasgow Uni may want to join the west (they might have to eventually).

[superbigal]

Yes I realised my Berwick boo boo as you replied

[GNU_Linux]

The West should seize the opportunity IF  its clubs really want to join the pyramid, and act now.  The East, Tayside, and the North are entirely different situations, which won't be resolved easily because  :
* 2 overlapping East pyramid feeder leagues in the same area, would make the SFA look totally inept (and a laughing stock ?).  In England, the Southern & Isthmian Leagues overlapped prior to the pyramid forming, and the English Football Association determined, and established different areas for each, to avoid 'duplication/overlapping'  once the pyramid was formed. The FA also reviews club allocations each year, to remove (wherever possible) any anomalies created by promotion and relegation  within the English non league structure (** see below)   
* the SFA is unlikely to move the Highland/Lowland boundary in the near future, if at all, so neither  the Lowland nor the EoS Leagues cannot accept clubs north of Tayside, even if it wanted to do this (which is unlikely) 
* the HFL has not agreed to North or Tayside juniors becoming feeder leagues at tier 6 (embracing relegation & promotion), and the senior North Caledonian League hasn't been involved in any pyramid discussions as far as I am aware, even though it covers an entirely different area of Scotland (which doesn't have any SJFA  representation) and shouldn't be excluded, if the pyramid is extended nationwide.
(** Footnote : there is an anomaly regarding 5 Welsh clubs, as Cardiff, Swansea, Newport, Wrexham and Merthyr have retained their original (English) FA membership, and continue to participate in the English pyramid) 
 

minor note but Colwyn Bay are the 6th Welsh club playing in England.

[Marten]

19 minutes ago, Robert James said:

The West should seize the opportunity IF  its clubs really want to join the pyramid, and act now.  The East, Tayside, and the North are entirely different situations, which won't be resolved easily because  :

* 2 overlapping East pyramid feeder leagues in the same area, would make the SFA look totally inept (and a laughing stock ?).  In England, the Southern & Isthmian Leagues overlapped prior to the pyramid forming, and the English Football Association determined, and established different areas for each, to avoid 'duplication/overlapping'  once the pyramid was formed. The FA also reviews club allocations each year, to remove (wherever possible) any anomalies created by promotion and relegation  within the English non league structure (** see below)   

* the SFA is unlikely to move the Highland/Lowland boundary in the near future, if at all, so neither  the Lowland nor the EoS Leagues cannot accept clubs north of Tayside, even if it wanted to do this (which is unlikely) 

* the HFL has not agreed to North or Tayside juniors becoming feeder leagues at tier 6 (embracing relegation & promotion), and the senior North Caledonian League hasn't been involved in any pyramid discussions as far as I am aware, even though it covers an entirely different area of Scotland (which doesn't have any SJFA  representation) and shouldn't be excluded, if the pyramid is extended nationwide.

(** Footnote : there is an anomaly regarding 5 Welsh clubs, as Cardiff, Swansea, Newport, Wrexham and Merthyr have retained their original (English) FA membership, and continue to participate in the English pyramid) 

 

I've lived in England for 8 years and followed non-league quite a bit, I also know a fair bit about the changes over the last 15 years or so. The FA would basically move a team from one area to the other. If the English approach would be taken, there could end up being 6 feeders at tier 6 for example: ERJFA, EOS, SOS, WRJFA, NRJFA & NCL. However, the areas for those leagues would be redrawn to create proper regional divisions. An example could be that ERJFA would cover Tayside, Perthshire, Fife etc., with EOS covering Edinburgh, the Lothians & Borders. This would see junior clubs from the Lothians being forced in the EOS & EOS clubs in Fife/Perthshire in the ERJFA.

In this case there also wouldn't be a fixed HL/LL boundary, but the HL would rather just include the 16 northernmost tier 5 clubs (assuming that both would become 16 team divisions). That could end up being problematic due to geography. It's not unimaginable that in the longer term this would result in the likes of East Stirlingshire to play in the HL, which I don't think would be desirable.

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

The vote was taken when tier 6 was on offer in the EoSL and when the West Juniors weren’t going to be in the pyramid at tier 6 either.
Things have moved on a lot since last year and it makes no sense whatsoever for the club to waste money on travel and inconvenience supporters when what we want is available where we are.
Access to tier 6 and SFA licensing is what we want.
 

Some of us voted to leave the juniors for those reasons and also because of underhand tactics used by someone you now put your trust in and wanted the club to champion a breakaway from the sjfa to a wosl. Admittedly that now seems unlikely but to sum up the whole thing as you have is a more simplistic view.

[Kilbowie Benches]

21 minutes ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said:

Some of us voted to leave the juniors for those reasons and also because of underhand tactics used by someone you now put your trust in and wanted the club to champion a breakaway from the sjfa to a wosl. Admittedly that now seems unlikely but to sum up the whole thing as you have is a more simplistic view.

Thr club can’t champion a rival league being set up whilst in membership of another!

If you think there is a majority for moving to the EoSL then call an egm?

If that’s not too simplistic for you.

[Pyramidic]

I am coming around to the thought of the Scottish Junior Football Association being in the Senior Non League Pyramid next season.

Using some of  Kilbowie Benches logic I can suggest that the SJFA are not really a proper national association as they do not cover large swathes of the country incuding much of the Scottish Highlands and none of the Scottish Borders etc.  Some might argue that the SJFA for historical reasons is in reality an "expanded Scottish Midlands Region organisation" with extensions from the Central Belt into Tayside and Aberdeenshire

In the Senior Pyramid next season the SJFA will be on the same level as the East of Scotland FA and should be treated similarly in my view.  We should all be one family with no triumphalism or illusions of grandeur. The Juniors/Seniors bickering should be well and truly laid to rest.

[Kilbowie Benches]

5 minutes ago, Pyramidic said:

I am coming around to the thought of the Scottish Junior Football Association being in the Senior Non League Pyramid next season.

Using some of  Kilbowie Benches logic I can suggest that the SJFA are not really a proper national association as they do not cover large swathes of the country incuding much of the Scottish Highlands and none of the Scottish Borders etc.  Some might argue that the SJFA for historical reasons is in reality an "expanded Scottish Midlands Region organisation" with extensions from the Central Belt into Tayside and Aberdeenshire

In the Senior Pyramid next season the SJFA will be on the same level as the East of Scotland FA and should be treated similarly in my view.  We should all be one family with no triumphalism or illusions of grandeur. The Juniors/Seniors bickering should be well and truly laid to rest.

Well said 

[Burnie_man]

I am coming around to the thought of the Scottish Junior Football Association being in the Senior Non League Pyramid next season.
Using some of  Kilbowie Benches logic I can suggest that the SJFA are not really a proper national association as they do not cover large swathes of the country incuding much of the Scottish Highlands and none of the Scottish Borders etc.  Some might argue that the SJFA for historical reasons is in reality an "expanded Scottish Midlands Region organisation" with extensions from the Central Belt into Tayside and Aberdeenshire
In the Senior Pyramid next season the SJFA will be on the same level as the East of Scotland FA and should be treated similarly in my view.  We should all be one family with no triumphalism or illusions of grandeur. The Juniors/Seniors bickering should be well and truly laid to rest.

If you want the bickering laid to rest, you absolutely should not want to see the ERJFA enter the Pyramid as a rival league to the EoS.

If you also want to see clubs as all one family, then the SJFA should not be anywhere near the Pyramid.

I don't follow your logic.

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

Thr club can’t champion a rival league being set up whilst in membership of another! If you think there is a majority for moving to the EoSL then call an egm?

If that’s not too simplistic for you.

 

I dont think youre actually reading the posts you reply to anymore. Ive already said I dont think there will be a majority, however I dont need an egm, those wishing to stay junior do. You also know exactly why I feel so strongly about this. Fans are being told absolutely nothing about this and still some expect us to put our faith in a man who would have been happy to see us go out of business.

Im finished arguing with you over this. Theres no need for the snide add ons.