Junior football, what is the future?

[Marshmallo]

2 minutes ago, Marten said:

Locheeboy has been blamed of deliberately lying for example. I discussed the subject face to face with him and I don't think he did that. Obviously what he said didn't turn out to be the truth, but I believe that he was genuinely convinced it was the truth. You could argue that he was naive to believe certain people who gave him that information and maybe you can blame the people who the information ultimately came from for not being honest, but I think he just passed on the message he believed was the truth.

I have some magic beans to sell him in that case.

[Ray Patterson]

1 hour ago, superbigal said:

Cheers point I am making and it is just my opinion.
If (a big if) a tayside league was established.
I would be happy for said league to decide amongst themselves whether they preferred to be in LL or HL territory. There would be no overlap arguments, so if as i expect said league wanted to be in LL territory, hopefully no objections.
Then a big if and it would need the eos to approve. Perhaps sensible for north fife and perth to be part of said block to beef it up a bit.
I accept it may be unpalatable in the south for this to slot in at tier 6 but that is what it would be if it headed north anyway.
I dont think many if any team from said league would have both the ability and licensing requirements to upstage the eos in terms of the promotion slot for years to come. The eos being light years ahead certainly in the latter requirement.

Just wondering what's your view on this proposal
Highland League - Tier 5
North Caley, North Super - Tayside Premier - Tier 6

But promotion/relegation is suspended for the first couple of seasons between the levels in the North to allow the leagues to settle and clubs to apply for licenses etc.

This scenario would give you three feeders to the Lowland League (West Premiership, SOS and EoS Premier) and the aforementioned three to the Highland.

Or is this all just too logical.

[BTID]

Quick question - if the proposal is west east LL and the west doesn’t move, how do you even get a breakaway league started? Who would run it?

[FairWeatherFan]

The other day it would of been lost in the shuffle, but there was the question of how clubs go about getting floodlights that aren't relying on a sugar daddy or the council. Whitehill Welfare are in the process of getting floodlights up to retain their SFA licence.

They've given a pretty detailed write up of their experience so far.

Quote

Huge progress but final push needed

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We have been working alongside the Scottish Football Partnership Trust and Gateway Lighting Consultancy in relation to grant funding, feasibility reports, planning application and all other aspects of the floodlight installation. With their assistance we have already applied for and successfully been granted planning permission from Midlothian Council’s planning department. Our planning application was approved and granted on 10th October 2019.

We also recently met with local Midlothian councillors regarding any further assistance and support that could be provided by Midlothian Council. We have also sourced and agreed the purchased of 4 Abacus floodlight towers along with 16 Haldite floodlights to be fitted to our towers, both of which meet SFA specification for next season.

Now that we have purchased the necessary floodlights we have invited various contractors to tender quotes to carry out the installation project. We are currently reviewing these quotes and will appoint a contractor to carry out the works in the very near future.

In terms of funding to help the club with the installation, we have been actively working to raise the necessary funds by having numerous fundraising events such as a football match v Hearts FC, a race night and a sportsman’s brunch. We also have a JustGiving page which is proving successful. We are also in the process of applying to different organisations for funding such as Cashback for Communities, Sports Scotland, The National Lottery and Landfill UK. We have been successful in our application for funding from Scottish football partnership and the East of Scotland League.

The next step in the process for us as a club is to appoint a contractor to carry out the installation works and we can then form a timeline of the work. Due to health and safety concerns and the logistics of having heavy machinery and materials on the pitch and surrounding areas at Ferguson Park it is our preference to get the installation works carried out as soon as the final game of this season is complete. The feedback we have been giving by contractors is that the installation process should take a maximum of 6 weeks from start to finish and we would therefore look to have the floodlights erected during pre-season 2020.

We still have along way to go to secure all the finance required and your on-going support at fundraising events is hugely appreciated.

 

[FairWeatherFan]

Just now, BTID said:

Quick question - if the proposal is west east LL and the west doesn’t move, how do you even get a breakaway league started? Who would run it?

Approach the SFA, LL, EoSFL and SoSFL with the idea of an independent WoSFL sitting at Tier 6. Let them know the club would apply if one was publicly sanctioned like the Lowland League creation in 2013. Or seek the approval from them to form the WoSFL themselves so they can then advertise for other clubs.

Who would run it? Ultimately the clubs that make up the membership. In the past the EoS did offer to help the formation of one, there was also the BSC attempt. So there would probably be some initial support from the other leagues.

[BTID]

Thanks. The problem I can see is it requires a group of West clubs to approach together. Seeing a lot of my clubs name being mentioned as a beacon for this, but it needs support of clubs to make it happen. 

[LongTimeLurker]

What's not clear is whether the SFA would actually sanction a breakaway as a tier 6.  Might not be as easy as people make it sound on here. A window of opportunity was missed when the EoS had their three conference format as that probably could have been extended through to the west if there had been enough interest.

[Guest]

The sfa want a West feeder. They have said as much. Please stop muddying the water like tj.

If 12 clubs said they wanted to form a wosfl at tier 6 the sfa, LL, eos and sos would welcome it.

The LL isnt going to split. Guys need to get their head out the sand. They rejected the ersjfa at tier 6 last year. They aren't going to vote to reduce their promotion chances from 1 in 2 to 1 in 3. Why would they just get the sjfa on board. That would be silly.

They would though open up more relegation spaces to a wosfl, the sosfl and the eosfl.

[FairWeatherFan]

8 minutes ago, BTID said:

Thanks. The problem I can see is it requires a group of West clubs to approach together. Seeing a lot of my clubs name being mentioned as a beacon for this, but it needs support of clubs to make it happen. 

It would definitely be best that prior to contacting the SFA and pyramid leagues that they could contact any other like minded clubs. 3-4 clubs putting their name to the request for a Tier 6 WoSFL, while at the same time publicly applying to the SoSFL as its their only alternative.

If someone can dig up BSC's email regarding a start up WoSFL would probably help to. Since I believe that came from George Fraser, who is now the Lowland League Chairman. It can be pointed out that nothing's actually changed since December 2017.

 

[FairWeatherFan]

7 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said:

What's not clear is whether the SFA would actually sanction a breakaway as a tier 6.  Might not be as easy as people make it sound on here. A window of opportunity was missed when the EoS had their three conference format as that probably could have been extended through to the west if there had been enough interest.

Nobody's saying it would be easy. Any club would be putting themselves out front for abuse from the usual Junior trolling as soon as it became public. To say it can't be done though is a nonsense.

You keep saying that the SFA board support Option Z. They support any option that gets this done, and ultimately back their members. Because its their members they have to keep happy.

No different than the SPFL board wanting colts, but that didn't happen because SPFL1&2 didn't want it.

[LongTimeLurker]

At no point did I state a breakaway can't be done and all I have stated is that the SFA appear to support Option Z. It wouldn't have been listed as an option for discussion otherwise.

[Guest]

Where. Have. The. Sfa. Supported. Option. Z.?

[AlanCamelonfan]

3 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said:

At no point did I state a breakaway can't be done and all I have stated is that the SFA appear to support Option Z. It wouldn't have been listed as an option for discussion otherwise.

going by your logic they support all 4 options then. That doesn't make sense. SFA have put out ideas they havent supported or probably care that much otehr than to get some sort of pyramid flowing

[Ginaro]

1 hour ago, BTID said:

Quick question - if the proposal is west east LL and the west doesn’t move, how do you even get a breakaway league started? Who would run it?

Why bother with a breakaway - if you have half a dozen clubs then do a Kelty and join the South of Scotland League. It avoids the issue of organising everything, getting approval, and changing the LL play-off rules to include a new league.

That would push the SoS numbers over 20 so they couldn't run as a single division - just like what happened in the east.

Options then are either run it as conferences like the EoS (half West half SoS in each, so more travel) or split into North and South divisions. The SFA want 16 team leagues at tier 6 so if the SoS went with conferences, the following season's SoS tier 6 would likely feature most of the West teams.

Winner gets a Scottish Cup place, and there's the South & East Cup-Winners Shield for another spot - which would be more winnable as more east clubs get a licence so can't take part. Immediate access to the U20s development league as well.

Nearly two years ago Bankies members voted to join a league in the pyramid and that's yet to happen...

[BTID]

Thanks mate. I think we hoped a west league would be created by this point. The east option became a non starter when tier 7 started. Sos - possibly becoming our only option but that involves taking a huge hit on gates. However as you mentioned, if we left then perhaps others would see the move like Kelty and join. 
 

I think it would be tragic if the club was unable to get us access to the u20 development league. A real back step in the progress of our feeder team which we have done incredibly well this season.

[Robert James]

9 hours ago, ArabAuslander said:

Just wondering what's your view on this proposal
Highland League - Tier 5
North Caley, North Super - Tayside Premier - Tier 6

But promotion/relegation is suspended for the first couple of seasons between the levels in the North to allow the leagues to settle and clubs to apply for licenses etc.

This scenario would give you three feeders to the Lowland League (West Premiership, SOS and EoS Premier) and the aforementioned three to the Highland.

Or is this all just too logical.

It is both the most logical, and the obvious solution. 

Unfortunately Scottish football is mired in politics and self preservation.

 

 

[Guest]

This would work for everyone. But apparently the sjfa want every other association to change what they are doing so they can get in at tier 5.

Tier 5 isn't going to happen. The LL won't split. Not yet. They also won't change their stance on 2 East feeder leagues in the same area.

The sjfa are playing a coy game of deception and misdirection, all in the name of self preservation and keeping hold of their power/control.

[Robert James]

2 hours ago, FairWeatherFan said:

The other day it would of been lost in the shuffle, but there was the question of how clubs go about getting floodlights that aren't relying on a sugar daddy or the council. Whitehill Welfare are in the process of getting floodlights up to retain their SFA licence.

They've given a pretty detailed write up of their experience so far.

 

Excellent post, which should be read by every ambitious club.

I suggest that you also post it on the Club Licence forum. It might prevent some 'blazers' from having sleepness nights. 

[FairWeatherFan]

26 minutes ago, BTID said:

Thanks mate. I think we hoped a west league would be created by this point. The east option became a non starter when tier 7 started. Sos - possibly becoming our only option but that involves taking a huge hit on gates. However as you mentioned, if we left then perhaps others would see the move like Kelty and join. 
 

I think it would be tragic if the club was unable to get us access to the u20 development league. A real back step in the progress of our feeder team which we have done incredibly well this season.

The deadline for applications to the SoS isn't until April 30th. So a decision wouldn't be made until after then.

Could easily put in an application in advance in the hopes that others would follow. Or withdraw it at the death when it's clear something else is or isn't happening.

With the EoS deadline typically being March 31st most of the big moves to set up the leagues for 2020-21 should be settled. So there's the month of April to weigh the decision knowing what's actually happening.

Edited January 18, 2020 by FairWeatherFan

[Footballfirst]

How many of the teams that moved from junior to senior in the EOSFL for season 2018/19 would have deemed themselves as ambitious or progressive clubs when they joined? I suspect that the majority only moved as part of a critical mass, just so that they wouldn't be left behind.

If you asked the same question again, I'd suggest that many more clubs would now view themselves as ambitious.  You only need to look at the step change in facilities at grounds, attendances, the increased commitment to development teams and a desire to become licensed in order that they can reap the potential benefits of access to higher leagues and funds from cup competitions.

The challenge is there for the West Juniors. How many clubs are ambitious enough to join the pyramid, and replicate what the Juniors in the East have done?  We saw earlier today what can be achieved, as both Bonnyrigg and Broxburn played in the 4th round of the big Scottish Cup, Bonnyrigg in front of a sell out crowd of over 2,200 and Broxburn selling out an away allocation of 1,600. That is success and progress for clubs that are truly ambitious.

I don't think that it would take many sides in the West to create a critical mass, but it does need one or two of the leading sides to demonstrate that they do want to progress, rather than settle for being the big fish in a diminishing pond, sweeping up the crumbs that remain in the juniors. 

Edited January 18, 2020 by Footballfirst