Massive fire at high rise flats in London

[Jacksgranda]

When they say there are "hundreds of fire doors missing" do they mean there are empty spaces where there are supposed to be fire doors, (i.e in corridors, at stairs) or do they mean non-fire doors are in place?

[welshbairn]

3 hours ago, Jacksgranda said:

When they say there are "hundreds of fire doors missing" do they mean there are empty spaces where there are supposed to be fire doors, (i.e in corridors, at stairs) or do they mean non-fire doors are in place?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/5-Plain-Fire-Doors-For-Sale-in-Great-Condition-/222554974081?hash=item33d14f6781:g:vC4AAOSwDrNZS69D

[williemillersmoustache]

The final Grenfell Tower fire toll will not be known until at least the end of the year, with 80 people currently presumed dead, police say.

I think it's very clear that this situation is being heavily pro-actively managed to ensure that  sensitive information is delivered in such a fashion that non-desirable outcomes for certain individuals are avoided for as long as possible. Isn't it? Perhaps I'm wrong.

[williemillersmoustache]

Code: Its a cover up.

Thank you Mr Turing.

[williemillersmoustache]

14 minutes ago, Melanius Mullarkey said:

You don't get to use that gif everyday, kudos

[whiskychimp]

Glad to hear Lily Allen's opinion today. I was waiting for her insight .

 

 

Where's my gun?

[Zen Archer (Raconteur)]

A large blaze has engulfed a new block of flats near Bethnal Green, east London.

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/fire-erupts-block-flats-near-east-londons-bethnal-green-1628620

[Newbornbairn]

What the f**k is going on at Grenfell? There are demands that the head of the Inquiry be replaced because he's white and "doesn't understand communities". Setting aside the blatant racism, the guy is an expert in commercial law and this case is going to involve myriad contracts and deals going back decades involving councils, housing associations, contractors, sub-contractors, building regulations, safety standards etc etc etc - exactly where you need an expert in commercial law surely? Instead they want someone who'll "empathise" with the residents. WTF?

 

Apparently the top 3 floors, where casualties are expected to be 100% are still too unstable to send search teams in so there's calls from the tinfoil hat brigade of conspiracy. Doubt there's any volunteers there to go to the top of a burnt out, unstable tower block with a dustpan and brush to collect remains which, given it's reckoned temperatures reached 1500-2000 Celcius for a sustained period, made it as hot as a crematorium for much longer.

It should be quite easy for the authorities to say "X number of people were registered there, Y number survived, Z number died" except a lot of the survivors are not contacting the authorities because they're illegal immigrants so the Government has had to assure them they won't be prosecuted. This isn't enough and there are demands that all the illegal immigrants be automatically given UK passports.

It turns out that there was a lot of sub-letting going on which has also made it extremely difficult to know who was meant to be in there.

The total is going to be higher than 80, everyone knows this and the authorities have said it from the start but identifying the remains is almost impossible where all that is left are a few teeth and fragments of femurs (the only bones left after cremations). They can't use dental records for people that never visited a dentist so they're having to try and extract DNA from the fragments - but then they need to match them with family members and again, many of these aren't coming forward.

 

Then we have Abbott, Lammy, Khan and the new Labour MP running around trying to make political capital out of this and attempting to attack the Tories. This is the Labour MP who was a Director of the Housing Association involved for 8 years and who never once raised any issues of fire safety.

 

The whole thing's a mess but the pot is being stirred by left wing activists.

[pandarilla]

I agree with you up to a point.

But the government and council leaders will be desperate for this to go away and pretend it was just a big accident. You only have to look at the hillsborough situation to see how the establishment closes ranks.

Surely they could've got a 'trusted' head for the enquiry - someone with a strong community background (again just like the Bishop guy in Liverpool for hillsborough) who could've had a team of legal experts to advise him?

But yeah there's some arsehole behaviour going on - as there always is when there's something that can be exploited.

High quality, balanced journalism is required now. Highlight the legitimate issues of corruption without giving air time to the numpties.

[Sergeant Wilson]

7 minutes ago, pandarilla said:

Surely they could've got a 'trusted' head for the enquiry - someone with a strong community background (again just like the Bishop guy in Liverpool)

Never liked him.

[pandarilla]

He's a proper bell-end. Jimmy tarbuck levels of boke.

[Newbornbairn]

21 minutes ago, pandarilla said:

I agree with you up to a point.

But the government and council leaders will be desperate for this to go away and pretend it was just a big accident. You only have to look at the hillsborough situation to see how the establishment closes ranks.

Surely they could've got a 'trusted' head for the enquiry - someone with a strong community background (again just like the Bishop guy in Liverpool for hillsborough) who could've had a team of legal experts to advise him?

But yeah there's some arsehole behaviour going on - as there always is when there's something that can be exploited.

High quality, balanced journalism is required now. Highlight the legitimate issues of corruption without giving air time to the numpties.

 

If the assumption is that a "fix" is going in, it doesn't really matter who the judge is does it? 

Labour want a woman or an ethnic minority judge, I shit ye not. Never mind this is a very senior appeal courts judge with 50 years experience in Commercial law, he's the wrong colour and gender. FFS!

I don't think Labour particularly care who the judge is and they don't particularly care about the residents, as evidenced by their role in the regulations and housing over decades. All they want to do is disrupt the enquiry, turn it into a race/class conflict, ensure the Tories get blamed and somehow try to force a General Election.

[pandarilla]

 
If the assumption is that a "fix" is going in, it doesn't really matter who the judge is does it? 
Labour want a woman or an ethnic minority judge, I shit ye not. Never mind this is a very senior appeal courts judge with 50 years experience in Commercial law, he's the wrong colour and gender. FFS!
I don't think Labour particularly care who the judge is and they don't particularly care about the residents, as evidenced by their role in the regulations and housing over decades. All they want to do is disrupt the enquiry, turn it into a race/class conflict, ensure the Tories get blamed and somehow try to force a General Election.

No I think it does matter who it is.

This is about the whole establishment in Britain basically ignoring the plight of these people. In a case which is so extreme and so delicate I think it's right that the person leading the enquiry is trusted by residents. It just makes sense to have everyone on board - and if this is what it takes then so be it.

Labour are finally standing up for people at the very bottom of society. For far too long they became part of the establishment.

[ayrmad]

12 hours ago, NewBornBairn said:

What the f**k is going on at Grenfell? There are demands that the head of the Inquiry be replaced because he's white and "doesn't understand communities". Setting aside the blatant racism, the guy is an expert in commercial law and this case is going to involve myriad contracts and deals going back decades involving councils, housing associations, contractors, sub-contractors, building regulations, safety standards etc etc etc - exactly where you need an expert in commercial law surely? Instead they want someone who'll "empathise" with the residents. WTF?

 

Apparently the top 3 floors, where casualties are expected to be 100% are still too unstable to send search teams in so there's calls from the tinfoil hat brigade of conspiracy. Doubt there's any volunteers there to go to the top of a burnt out, unstable tower block with a dustpan and brush to collect remains which, given it's reckoned temperatures reached 1500-2000 Celcius for a sustained period, made it as hot as a crematorium for much longer.

It should be quite easy for the authorities to say "X number of people were registered there, Y number survived, Z number died" except a lot of the survivors are not contacting the authorities because they're illegal immigrants so the Government has had to assure them they won't be prosecuted. This isn't enough and there are demands that all the illegal immigrants be automatically given UK passports.

It turns out that there was a lot of sub-letting going on which has also made it extremely difficult to know who was meant to be in there.

The total is going to be higher than 80, everyone knows this and the authorities have said it from the start but identifying the remains is almost impossible where all that is left are a few teeth and fragments of femurs (the only bones left after cremations). They can't use dental records for people that never visited a dentist so they're having to try and extract DNA from the fragments - but then they need to match them with family members and again, many of these aren't coming forward.

 

Then we have Abbott, Lammy, Khan and the new Labour MP running around trying to make political capital out of this and attempting to attack the Tories. This is the Labour MP who was a Director of the Housing Association involved for 8 years and who never once raised any issues of fire safety.

 

The whole thing's a mess but the pot is being stirred by left wing activists.

Has the guy not got history for siding with the establishment?

[welshbairn]

7 hours ago, pandarilla said:

 

No I think it does matter who it is.

This is about the whole establishment in Britain basically ignoring the plight of these people. In a case which is so extreme and so delicate I think it's right that the person leading the enquiry is trusted by residents. It just makes sense to have everyone on board - and if this is what it takes then so be it.

Labour are finally standing up for people at the very bottom of society. For far too long they became part of the establishment.

 

Emma Coad, the Kensington Labour MP who has been spouting off today, seems to want therapy for the victims instead of a forensic evaluation of who are the fuckers who allowed it to happen, and what steps need to be made to stop it happening again. Those are different jobs. I might change my mind if there isn't at least an interim report in a few months about what happened because it seems like a straightforward case of following who authorised what, who prescribed the regulations and who carried out inspections under what rules.  And exactly what happened in the fire of course. Having a neighbourhood activist in charge of that would be insane.

[pandarilla]

Emma Coad, the Kensington Labour MP who has been spouting off today, seems to want therapy for the victims instead of a forensic evaluation of who are the fuckers who allowed it to happen, and what steps need to be made to stop it happening again. Those are different jobs. I might change my mind if there isn't at least an interim report in a few months about what happened because it seems like a straightforward case of following who authorised what, who prescribed the regulations and who carried out inspections under what rules.  And exactly what happened in the fire of course. Having a neighbourhood activist in charge of that would be insane.

It doesn't need to be an activist. Just someone not perceived as part of the establishment.

[HTG]

12 hours ago, pandarilla said:

 

It doesn't need to be an activist. Just someone not perceived as part of the establishment.

 

With the best will in the world, It's a tough ask to find a suitably qualified leader of an enquiry like this and who has the level of experience needed without them being at the heart of the judicial system and therefore the establishment - however you want o define that. 

Feels to me like the expectation here is that the enquiry is less about getting to the facts than considering how high to hang folk for a number of those impacted. Of course, if this boy does his job, there will be a number of individuals and companies squirming very uncomfortably - including government ministers from the last 15 - 20 years. 

The problem is that these things can take ages and we always end up with an easy apology from within the Commons because it wasn't on their watch. Margaret Thatcher should have been dug up to apologise for Hillsborough and the comments she made at the time. As should most if not all of her cabinet. 

[pandarilla]

I think that's it in a nutshell.

Too many times these things are delayed and delayed and eventually nothing really comes of it. How do you ensure that doesn't happen?

As you say, very difficult.

[hk blues]

This can be handled as an inquiry into what happened or an inquiry into the social and political issues that affect those residents who lived in the block - makes a huge difference what the objective is deemed to be at the outset.

I'm putting my tin hat on as I type, but the residents - legitimate or otherwise - deserve to be compensated for what they experienced, but it shouldn't be seen as a 'lottery win' for anyone involved, should it? As for those unwilling to come forward to help with the investigation etc...this should surely also preclude them from being included in any compensation etc - greater good and all that. Why should any illegal Immigrants involved be given UK passports because they were living in that block?

This is being turned into a political and social football by those with vested interests, and on all sides.

[ayrmad]

37 minutes ago, hk blues said:

This can be handled as an inquiry into what happened or an inquiry into the social and political issues that affect those residents who lived in the block - makes a huge difference what the objective is deemed to be at the outset.

I'm putting my tin hat on as I type, but the residents - legitimate or otherwise - deserve to be compensated for what they experienced, but it shouldn't be seen as a 'lottery win' for anyone involved, should it? As for those unwilling to come forward to help with the investigation etc...this should surely also preclude them from being included in any compensation etc - greater good and all that. Why should any illegal Immigrants involved be given UK passports because they were living in that block?

This is being turned into a political and social football by those with vested interests, and on all sides.




 

Why shouldn't it be seen as a lottery win for anyone involved?

The establishment are only bothered about cash, the higher the payouts the better as far as I'm concerned.