cdhafc1874 Posted September 17, 2017 Share Posted September 17, 2017 I can see Richard Lennon being sympathetic to this idea. Anas Sar war on the other hand? Christ, is Monica claiming him now as well! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
invergowrie arab Posted September 17, 2017 Share Posted September 17, 2017 On 15/09/2017 at 16:39, Highlandmagyar 2nd String said: I can see Richard Lennon being sympathetic to this idea. Anas Sar war on the other hand? #realchange right enough Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirty dingus Posted September 17, 2017 Share Posted September 17, 2017 18 minutes ago, invergowrie arab said: #realchange right enough Meet the new boss, same as the old boss. Labour should just f**k right off Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doulikefish Posted September 17, 2017 Share Posted September 17, 2017 #realchange right enough One socialist millionaire doesnt recognise unions the other one would rather the tories be in power kinda sums up the northern regional branch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted September 17, 2017 Share Posted September 17, 2017 21 minutes ago, invergowrie arab said: #realchange right enough So even if it becomes clear that the people of Scotland wanted another Independence Referendum then they shouldn't get it? Certainly not my interpretation of "progressive socialism". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotThePars Posted September 17, 2017 Share Posted September 17, 2017 So even if it becomes clear that the people of Scotland wanted another Independence Referendum then they shouldn't get it? Certainly not my interpretation of "progressive socialism". but arguably a valid interpretation of Lenin's actions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pandarilla Posted September 17, 2017 Share Posted September 17, 2017 One socialist millionaire doesnt recognise unions the other one would rather the tories be in power kinda sums up the northern regional branch Is Leonard a millionaire? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted September 17, 2017 Share Posted September 17, 2017 4 hours ago, NotThePars said: but arguably a valid interpretation of Lenin's actions. If you suggested to Leonard that he's a Leninist he would shit himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pandarilla Posted September 17, 2017 Share Posted September 17, 2017 If you suggested to Leonard that he's a Leninist he would shit himself. He's very good friends with John foster, the head of the communist party (one of them anyway). He's genuinely left wing chief. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjamin_Nevis Posted September 17, 2017 Share Posted September 17, 2017 Another Labour leader, another clueless fuckwit, whichever incompetent gets the gig. Electoral fuckdom awaits. Delicious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pandarilla Posted September 17, 2017 Share Posted September 17, 2017 Another Labour leader, another clueless fuckwit, whichever incompetent gets the gig. Electoral fuckdom awaits. Delicious. Leonard is neither a fuckwit nor incompetent. Don't get me wrong, I don't think he'll succeed - but he's a good guy. I don't think he's got the leadership skills. But he's a smart guy and he's a genuine guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted September 17, 2017 Share Posted September 17, 2017 19 minutes ago, pandarilla said: He's very good friends with John foster, the head of the communist party (one of them anyway). He's genuinely left wing chief. So if he was asked publicly if he was a Leninist he would say yes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pandarilla Posted September 17, 2017 Share Posted September 17, 2017 So if he was asked publicly if he was a Leninist he would say yes? I don't know what he's say. But he's an intellectual guy with a strong connection to the leader of the communist party in Scotland. He's obviously not a communist - but he's undoubtedly left wing. Proper left (or as proper as you get in the labour party). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shades75 Posted September 17, 2017 Share Posted September 17, 2017 37 minutes ago, pandarilla said: I don't know what he's say. But he's an intellectual guy with a strong connection to the leader of the communist party in Scotland. He's obviously not a communist - but he's undoubtedly left wing. Proper left (or as proper as you get in the labour party). But not left enough to support 5.5million people freeing themselves from a right-wing government they don't, and never do, vote for. Same as Corbyn. A unionist first and socialist second. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
invergowrie arab Posted September 17, 2017 Share Posted September 17, 2017 1 hour ago, pandarilla said: I don't know what he's say. But he's an intellectual guy with a strong connection to the leader of the communist party in Scotland. He's obviously not a communist - but he's undoubtedly left wing. Proper left (or as proper as you get in the labour party). Was he proper left when working for the GMB to promote building weapons of mass destruction instead of socially useful things? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pandarilla Posted September 17, 2017 Share Posted September 17, 2017 But not left enough to support 5.5million people freeing themselves from a right-wing government they don't, and never do, vote for. Same as Corbyn. A unionist first and socialist second. Comparing everything to the single issue of Scottish independence is infantile. I discussed the issue with Leonard (and John foster) back in 2004 and I can assure you their view of Scotland's relationship with Britain is not a right wing one. The communist party were advocating members (all 42 of them) to vote no. I disagree with them, but don't make absolutely everything about the issue of Scottish independence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pandarilla Posted September 17, 2017 Share Posted September 17, 2017 Was he proper left when working for the GMB to promote building weapons of mass destruction instead of socially useful things? I'll be surprised if Leonard is supportive of trident, but I honestly have no idea. Your point about the gmb not being particularly lefty wing is hardly a ground breaking revelation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shades75 Posted September 17, 2017 Share Posted September 17, 2017 29 minutes ago, pandarilla said: Comparing everything to the single issue of Scottish independence is infantile. I discussed the issue with Leonard (and John foster) back in 2004 and I can assure you their view of Scotland's relationship with Britain is not a right wing one. The communist party were advocating members (all 42 of them) to vote no. I disagree with them, but don't make absolutely everything about the issue of Scottish independence. Starting a reply to a post you disagree with with an insult is infantile. It doesn't matter if their view of Scotland's relationship with Great Britain is right-wing or not. It's cognitive dissonance to want to deny millions of people a route out of right-wing government that they don't choose. It gets even worse than that and moves further down an autocratic route when, even if he disagrees with Independence, that he wants to deny the people who are affected by the circumstance, the right to choose. I don't care how great a guy he is, it's for him to square his own circle between furthering socialist aims or throwing a whole country under a bus so as not to upset swathes of the electorate he hopes will vote for him. It doesn't even sacrifice that 5.5 million for the greater good of the other 50 million. Scottish independence will not largely affect them, but it would, us. As I said, whether you think it's childish or not, given the choice between a chance for progressive left-wing society and growing social equality for Scots, he'd rather the Tories, who we never elect, act against us. Furthermore, if it is infantile to judge wider policy and actions through the prism of the constitutional issue, then Leonard is the biggest baby in the biggest pram, wailing and launching the toys everywhere. He is proclaiming no coalitions, no pacts or agreements with the SNP. Why? Simply because the SNP want independence. No negotiations, nothing - because he is opposed to that single issue. However, pacts with the Tories in local councils and standing side by side with in a joint better together campaign is, of course, completely fine. From that, should we assume that Leonard is more sympathetic to Tory policy than SNP policy? Or just the one, overriding, trump card, infantile one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pandarilla Posted September 17, 2017 Share Posted September 17, 2017 Starting a reply to a post you disagree with with an insult is infantile. It doesn't matter if their view of Scotland's relationship with Great Britain is right-wing or not. It's cognitive dissonance to want to deny millions of people a route out of right-wing government that they don't choose. It gets even worse than that and moves further down an autocratic route when, even if he disagrees with Independence, that he wants to deny the people who are affected by the circumstance, the right to choose. I don't care how great a guy he is, it's for him to square his own circle between furthering socialist aims or throwing a whole country under a bus so as not to upset swathes of the electorate he hopes will vote for him. It doesn't even sacrifice that 5.5 million for the greater good of the other 50 million. Scottish independence will not largely affect them, but it would, us. As I said, whether you think it's childish or not, given the choice between a chance for progressive left-wing society and growing social equality for Scots, he'd rather the Tories, who we never elect, act against us. You don't need to persuade me of the merits of Scottish independence. I've been on that bus for a long time. But I'm against a second referendum in the near future. I happen to believe that we do need to respect the decision. The fact that the labour party and a prospective leader of Scottish labour are opposed to a second referendum is not a surprise. It's also not un-progressive or right wing. I don't think he's a great guy, but in terms of the labour party he is a genuinely left wing candidate. He's also serious and experienced when it comes to economic policy. I think he lacks leadership qualities but I do know that he's not your typical 'blairite/brownite' sharp suit politician. Sarwar absolutely is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shades75 Posted September 17, 2017 Share Posted September 17, 2017 4 minutes ago, pandarilla said: You don't need to persuade me of the merits of Scottish independence. I've been on that bus for a long time. But I'm against a second referendum in the near future. I happen to believe that we do need to respect the decision. The fact that the labour party and a prospective leader of Scottish labour are opposed to a second referendum is not a surprise. It's also not un-progressive or right wing. I don't think he's a great guy, but in terms of the labour party he is a genuinely left wing candidate. He's also serious and experienced when it comes to economic policy. I think he lacks leadership qualities but I do know that he's not your typical 'blairite/brownite' sharp suit politician. Sarwar absolutely is. I hope he does get the gig. Only because Sarwar doesn't deserve anything other than a quiet slide into obscurity. If he gets it he'll drag Labour even further into the gutter than they already are. It's a crap choice that the Labour Party have, and even though I'm SNP, I hoped that they'd have been able to offer a significantly better one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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