Is money ruining the game?

[Jambomo]

21 hours ago, Sergeant Wilson said:

I'm pretty sure they're not. Your more likely to get dafties at any level getting caught for recreational drugs.

I'm more certain they are. When you consider that even at amateur sports levels you have people taking PED's it would be astounding if footballers weren't as well.

There was certainly a strong suggestion when the Spanish doctor, Eufemiano Fuentes, who helped cyclists using blood transfers, was busted as he himself said he had worked with footballers. There was a massive Spanish cover-up of the subsequent investigation.(Actually this article covers it well, I especially like the question he'd answer “How I prepared a team to play in the Champions League":

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/othersports/cycling/12092102/Blood-samples-in-a-Barcelona-freezer-could-spark-biggest-ever-doping-scandal-as-Operation-Puerto-resurfaces.html

I just think that given the money in the game, the wide number of sports where doping is already rife - as I say, even at amateur level. I find it hard to believe there would be no doping.

[Sergeant Wilson]

2 hours ago, Jambomo said:

I'm more certain they are. When you consider that even at amateur sports levels you have people taking PED's it would be astounding if footballers weren't as well.

There was certainly a strong suggestion when the Spanish doctor, Eufemiano Fuentes, who helped cyclists using blood transfers, was busted as he himself said he had worked with footballers. There was a massive Spanish cover-up of the subsequent investigation.(Actually this article covers it well, I especially like the question he'd answer “How I prepared a team to play in the Champions League":

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/othersports/cycling/12092102/Blood-samples-in-a-Barcelona-freezer-could-spark-biggest-ever-doping-scandal-as-Operation-Puerto-resurfaces.html

I just think that given the money in the game, the wide number of sports where doping is already rife - as I say, even at amateur level. I find it hard to believe there would be no doping.

I'm not saying it doesn't happen, just that it'll be a tiny minority of players. I think individual sports are more prone to it.

[nsr]

I'm pretty sure they're not. Your more likely to get dafties at any level getting caught for recreational drugs.

Out of curiosity what makes you pretty sure? Lack of evidence or something more?

[Sergeant Wilson]

Just now, nsr said:

Out of curiosity what makes you pretty sure? Lack of evidence or something more?

Absolutely no evidence to support my view, just an opinion. I do think there would have been more caught if there was an issue. Press scrutiny of football would have dug more up as well.

[DiegoDiego]

Fuentes was very friendly with both Barcelona and Real Madrid. The French team doctor claimed that many of the 98 winning team were on EPO and proof would have been found had anyone looked. The Juventus doctor got two years in jail for supplying the team with EPO. Tony Cascarino admitted his Marseilles team willingly took mystery supplements which had amphetamine like effects. The president of the Algerian Olympic Committee says that their World Cup team of 82 were given various drugs without their consent and five of them fathered disabled children around that time.

How much more smoke do you need? Football is like tennis. They're all at it but nobody wants to find out that Santa isn't real.

[nsr]

2 hours ago, Sergeant Wilson said:

Absolutely no evidence to support my view, just an opinion. I do think there would have been more caught if there was an issue. Press scrutiny of football would have dug more up as well.

Fair points. I take the view that either all of the top players are at it, or none of them are, on the basis that those who weren't wouldn't be able to compete at the same level as those that were. Is that far too simplistic an approach? I'm not singling out football by any means, obviously it went on in cycling and no doubt other sports as well.

[Northboy]

On ‎06‎/‎09‎/‎2017 at 19:41, Sergeant Wilson said:

The cash has to be spread out more evenly between clubs. Split gate reicepts for league games?

The problem with splitting gate receipts is that it falls apart due to the inherent greed of all teams. Aberdeen or Hearts, for example, might be happy to take 50% of receipts from their trips to Ibrox or Parkhead but would they be equally happy dishing out 50% of their own receipts to Hamilton or Partick Thistle? While it would require closer investigation but my very quick calculations suggest splitting receipts might be a break even exercise for some clubs.

[Carl Cort's Hamstring]

5 hours ago, Jambomo said:

I'm more certain they are. When you consider that even at amateur sports levels you have people taking PED's it would be astounding if footballers weren't as well.

There was certainly a strong suggestion when the Spanish doctor, Eufemiano Fuentes, who helped cyclists using blood transfers, was busted as he himself said he had worked with footballers. There was a massive Spanish cover-up of the subsequent investigation.(Actually this article covers it well, I especially like the question he'd answer “How I prepared a team to play in the Champions League":

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/othersports/cycling/12092102/Blood-samples-in-a-Barcelona-freezer-could-spark-biggest-ever-doping-scandal-as-Operation-Puerto-resurfaces.html

I just think that given the money in the game, the wide number of sports where doping is already rife - as I say, even at amateur level. I find it hard to believe there would be no doping.

I'd agree with that, I just fundamentally don't believe that in such a hugely wealthy sport people don't do it.

I remember reading the BBC’s ‘Football Confidential’ book a few years ago, which basically said you’d have to be either incredibly unlucky or incredibly stupid to actually get caught doping in England. It was written in the early/mid 2000s, so no idea if that’s still the case.

Real Sociedad also basically admitted they were doping when they almost won La Liga in 2002. The guy who took over as president of the club a few years later said that they had made huge payments to Fuentes for 'strange medicines'.

Other anecdotes:

Arsene Wenger: “We have had some players come to us at Arsenal from other clubs abroad and their red blood cell count has been abnormally high. That kind of thing makes you wonder. There are clubs who dope their players without the players knowing. The club might say that they were being injected with vitamins and the player would not necessarily know that it was something different.”

Tweet from David Walsh, who did so much to expose Lance Armstrong: “Tyler Hamilton recalled a short conversation with US Postal doctor Luis del Moral from 1999: “you guys take nothing in comparison to footballers.”

Matias Almeyda’s autobiography: “At Parma we were given an IV drip before games. They said it was a mixture of vitamins but before entering the field I was able to jump up as high as the ceiling.”

Juventus’ club doctor was found guilty of giving banned substances to players in the 90s, although because it’s Italy and their legal system is insane no-one was actually punished.

Tony Cascarino at Marseille: “I admit that I received injections but I know many other players who did the same. I don’t know exactly what it was but I’m 99 percent sure that it was not legal…. It was always before the match. We received an injection in the lower back. I was not quite sure what it was but as everybody told me it was good and as I felt great after each injection, I accepted what was being done to me.”

Going back to the 80s and German football:

Toni Schumacher: “Some players in the national team were genuine world champions…when it came to the use of “Stärkungschemie” [literally, Strengthening chemistry]. Among them was a player from Munich, whom we used to call the “walking pharmacy”.”

Paul Breitner: “The fact is, everyone knows about it, because in the Bundesliga it is common gossip. Especially before start of the season it’s a topic with new players. How much they swallowed at their former club, and what it preferred at their new club. Doping is just as much the norm in football as in other sports.”

There are rumours about England at the 1998 World Cup as well.

 

 

[Carl Cort's Hamstring]

Gary Neville's autobiography:

"When the 1998 World Cup started, some of the players started taking injections from Glenn's favourite medic, a Frenchman called Dr Rougier. It was different from anything we'd done at United, but all above board, I'm sure. After some of the lads said they'd felt a real burst of energy, I decided to seize any help on offer. So many of the players decided to go for it before that Argentina match that there was a queue to see the doctor."

Th former team doctor for France:

"Blood tests showed anomalies from several Bleus just before the 1998 World Cup. When you know the clubs where certain players were raised, it gives rise to strong suspicions."

Paclet, who went on to become team doctor for the 2006 World Cup side, told today's Le Parisien newspaper:

"It's public knowledge that there were practices going on at the time … that were borderline, to say the least. I am saying what everyone knows. I haven't made anything up. Having a raised hematocrit [indicator of red blood cells] level did not prove that they had taken EPO. As there was no proof, we didn't bother them with it."

[Herman Hessian]

Quote

 PSG chairman Nasser al-Khelaifi, embracing the fair play spirit: “We respect all Uefa and Fifa rules. It’s not our problem if other clubs aren’t happy.”

•And Lyon owner Jean-Michel Aulas, reassuring Khelaifi that he meant “nothing negative” last month when he retweeted a video of a masturbating kangaroo captioned “Nasser and financial fair play”. “Please know this: I maintain great respect for you as a man.”

 

[ICTChris]

Gary Neville's autobiography:

"When the 1998 World Cup started, some of the players started taking injections from Glenn's favourite medic, a Frenchman called Dr Rougier. It was different from anything we'd done at United, but all above board, I'm sure. After some of the lads said they'd felt a real burst of energy, I decided to seize any help on offer. So many of the players decided to go for it before that Argentina match that there was a queue to see the doctor." su>

I've just remembered that Glenn Hoddle employed a 'faith healer' in the England team around that time [emoji23] What an utter fruit loop that man is.

[The Moonster]

On 09/09/2017 at 08:32, Carl Cort's Hamstring said:

 

Arsene Wenger: “We have had some players come to us at Arsenal from other clubs abroad and their red blood cell count has been abnormally high. That kind of thing makes you wonder. There are clubs who dope their players without the players knowing. The club might say that they were being injected with vitamins and the player would not necessarily know that it was something different.”

Funny to see Wenger talking about it given that Paul Merson has said they would be given injections on the eve of games at their hotel.

[nsr]

I've always found Wenger a bit of a hypocrite in some areas.

[Herman Hessian]

1 hour ago, The Moonster said:

Funny to see Wenger talking about it given that Paul Merson has said they would be given injections on the eve of games at their hotel.

i presume merson was on about intravenously taking on board gin and vodka rather than anything more sinister, though ?

[The Moonster]

40 minutes ago, Herman Hessian said:

i presume merson was on about intravenously taking on board gin and vodka rather than anything more sinister, though ?

He said he didn't know what it was but it was a "yellowy substance" so I think that rules out gin or vodka (unless it's vodka with fresh orange). Injecting his own pish, perhaps? If it's good enough for Madonna it's good enough for Merce.

[Herman Hessian]

1 minute ago, The Moonster said:

Injecting his own pish, perhaps?

that'd still be about 40% abv....