Is money ruining the game?

[pandarilla]

Didn't want to clog up the Premier League thread but there was a discussion earlier about the effect money has had on football that I thought was worth continuing (for the millionth time on here I know but f**k it - what's a football forum actually for...).

https://www.theguardian.com/membership/2015/mar/26/guardian-live-is-big-money-ruining-english-football

I essentially agree with Pat Nevin in the article highlighted above.  There's no doubt that there have been some huge benefits from the increased revenue (in England in particular but some apply to up here as well) but 'morally and philosophically' - it's bad for the game.

 

So...is money ruining the game in the likes of the English Premier League?

Do the benefits outweigh the negatives?

Does anyone give a f**k?

 

(if we could get the Helen Lovejoy gifs and #amf refernces out the way early it would be much appreciated)

 

 

 

[Michael W]

To an extent, yes. Transfer fees have become an absolute circus and it's getting tedious. 

Interestingly, we seem to be in the midst of a backlash with transfer fees. Liverpool with Coutinho, Southampton with Van Dijk and RB Leipzig with Keita (OK, they relented, but have him another season) rejecting stupidly high transfer fees for their players. Even Arsenal, who turned down £50m for Sanchez, who will leave for nothing next season, is a brave call. I think clubs in some leagues are now at the level where they feel that they don't need the money when a bigger club comes calling, which is not a bad thing. 

In terms of the wages paid to players, I genuinely don't think it is ruining the game. If it doesn't go to the players the board line their pockets. Arguably football is fairer because the ones doing the work that causes the money to roll in are being rewarded appropriately.  

[vikingTON]

11 minutes ago, pandarilla said:

Didn't want to clog up the Premier League thread but there was a discussion earlier about the effect money has had on football that I thought was worth continuing (for the millionth time on here I know but f**k it - what's a football forum actually for...).

https://www.theguardian.com/membership/2015/mar/26/guardian-live-is-big-money-ruining-english-football

I essentially agree with Pat Nevin in the article highlighted above.  There's no doubt that there have been some huge benefits from the increased revenue (in England in particular but some apply to up here as well) but 'morally and philosophically' - it's bad for the game.

 

So...is money ruining the game in the likes of the English Premier League?

Do the benefits outweigh the negatives?

Does anyone give a f**k?

 

(if we could get the Helen Lovejoy gifs and #amf refernces out the way early it would be much appreciated)

 

 

 

[Musketeer Gripweed]

Well they can't keep the money the television companies are giving them under their beds and the interest rates at the banks are shite. Why not spend it? I think it's great.

[John Lambies Doos]

Yes. Personally I think it's ruined the game. I was fortunate to see Aberdeen and Dundee Utd taking Real Madrid and Barcelona scalps during the 80s; we won't see that again. Money has most certainly widened the gulf across Europe to the point of no return. It's very disappointing

[MARYHILLISWONDERFUL]

54 minutes ago, pandarilla said:

Didn't want to clog up the Premier League thread but there was a discussion earlier about the effect money has had on football that I thought was worth continuing (for the millionth time on here I know but f**k it - what's a football forum actually for...).

https://www.theguardian.com/membership/2015/mar/26/guardian-live-is-big-money-ruining-english-football

I essentially agree with Pat Nevin in the article highlighted above.  There's no doubt that there have been some huge benefits from the increased revenue (in England in particular but some apply to up here as well) but 'morally and philosophically' - it's bad for the game.

 

So...is money ruining the game in the likes of the English Premier League?

Do the benefits outweigh the negatives?

Does anyone give a f**k?

 

(if we could get the Helen Lovejoy gifs and #amf refernces out the way early it would be much appreciated)

 

 

 

We should cut all the money in football by half then divide it evenly and put the half set aside into real problems in the real world, we have people out there dying from preventable diseases all across the world, children starving in Africa, people out on the streets with no home and no hope and it's all because of money! It's supposed to make the world go round but it's made the world morally wrong!

[pandarilla]

Well they can't keep the money the television companies are giving them under their beds and the interest rates at the banks are shite. Why not spend it? I think it's great.

Stronger regulation? More money going centrally to then be sent down the leagues? Even it up a bit?

Are the current regulations on spending effective?

[JamieStevenson]

I'm not fussed. If the money is there, they can spend it however they wish to. There's only going to be more and more money funneled into the game as well so people better get used to it fast. 

[HibeeJibee]

I suppose money has always been ruining the game but it's clearly the scale and extremity of it that's causing concern just now. There is an almost unfathomable difference between very top of the game and the rest, which doesn't really filter down. Then you've the morality of transfer fees measured as fractions of a billion; eye-watering agents fees; FIFA's corruption...

Nothing unremittingly grows either. It's reliant on satellite TV cash and much of the game's elite use it to service interest on even greater debt: what happens when the bubble bursts?

[bud1876]

We should cut all the money in football by half then divide it evenly and put the half set aside into real problems in the real world, we have people out there dying from preventable diseases all across the world, children starving in Africa, people out on the streets with no home and no hope and it's all because of money! It's supposed to make the world go round but it's made the world morally wrong!

Agreed.
I'm looking to buy a new telly and could do with a few $$ so I can upgrade to a better one.

[Louis Litt]

The wages don't bother me, the money's in the sport and even though there's a bunch of jobbers earning fortunes, fair fucks. 

I can't stand watching English clubs pick players up here for what's to them absolutely pennies and then chuck 10 million or whatever at a player who's untested in the premier league or well past their prime. Realistically Dundee could bring through a 20 goal a season striker in their early twenties and bank about a tenth of that, I don't see how anyone supporting a Scottish team can't find that frustrating.

I'll still watch English games but the mental money in the TV deals and increasing transfer funds has gone hand in hand with me wanting them to get absolutely humped in all European competitions. It's probably jealously, tbf. 

[Busta Nut]

The UEFA "Champions League" started this pish in the mid to late 90s

[Jimmy85]

I'd rather laugh at Brighton for signing Phil Jones for £80 million than save starving children tbh. 

[tongue_tied_danny]

2 hours ago, HibeeJibee said:

I suppose money has always been ruining the game but it's clearly the scale and extremity of it that's causing concern just now. There is an almost unfathomable difference between very top of the game and the rest, which doesn't really filter down. Then you've the morality of transfer fees measured as fractions of a billion; eye-watering agents fees; FIFA's corruption...

Nothing unremittingly grows either. It's reliant on satellite TV cash and much of the game's elite use it to service interest on even greater debt: what happens when the bubble bursts?

Will the bubble burst though?

We've been hearing that for years. I remember when ITV digital went bust in 2002 many people were predicting a doomsday scenario but English football is still alive and well.

[1320Lichtie]

Will the bubble burst though?
We've been hearing that for years. I remember when ITV digital went bust in 2002 many people were predicting a doomsday scenario but English football is still alive and well.

I think it's been manageable until maybe the last 3/4 year, can't see how this kind of money can be sustained at some clubs. Surely a few of the clubs just a relegation away from being in a terrible position.

[irvine_buddie]

The problem is that transfer fees are going up exponentially, they gradually creeped up for years and then suddenly it was £80m for Bale and then £90m for Pogba and then £200m for Neymar. If it was just these top level players going for that it would be fine but it's dragged up all the fees so that half decent players like Siggurdson and Kyle Walker are going for £50m. It can't keep going up at this rate or it won't be long till we hit the £1B for a transfer. I hope the English bubble bursts, surely there's a limit to how high the TV and gambling money can sustain it to

[pandarilla]

I can't see it bursting unfortunately.

The marketing of the English league in Asia and the USA is incredible. Folk with absolutely no connection just buying in to the hype, in huge numbers.

That money is not drying up anytime soon. And the English have allocated that money well, unlike Scotland. Ali the teams are now loaded, and the trickle down has definitely reached the second tier (and slowly the other two).

[ICTChris]

In terms of a bubble, I'm not sure the money going into English (and other European) football is a financial bubble.  The money mainly comes from television rights money, the companies who pay that take it from subscription and advertising and I don't see either of those drying up.  One thing that could have an impact is the move towards more individualised TV like Netflix rather than watching specific channels but even in that sense I think watching live sport will continue to be a big driver of ratings.

I don't think money has ruined football.  More people watch the sport live and on television than at any point in the fifty years.  There are loads of international class players playing in the Premiership, top class managers and coaches.  I'm not as into it as some people are and would always prefer to watch Caley, or other Scottish football, but I do enjoy watching the Premiership.

One area where I don't think English football has done so well is developing young players and managers.  If you look at Germany or France there are a lot of interesting sides who have built themselves up with young players and managers.  I think this is reflected in the relatively poor showings of the English national team.  The FA can sort that though and the funds they have should make it easier.

[sjc]

The bubble burst in Italy after nearly 20 years of them dominating the money league stakes.

There was an article about how the millenials don't generally watch live sports and prefer to watch goal clips on twitter.

Like it or not this is the next generation so them paying for live games packages seems unrealistic. Combine this with your traditional fans like myself that loved watching English football and football in general (after Scottish football) that are disenfranchised with the game and no longer watch it as a live event then the bubble will certainly burst at some point.

[vikingTON]

The bubble burst in Italy after nearly 20 years of them dominating the money league stakes.
There was an article about how the millenials don't generally watch live sports and prefer to watch goal clips on twitter.
Like it or not this is the next generation so them paying for live games packages seems unrealistic. Combine this with your traditional fans like myself that loved watching English football and football in general (after Scottish football) that are disenfranchised with the game and no longer watch it as a live event then the bubble will certainly burst at some point.

Well no it "certainly" won't, as believe it or not a globally televised league isn't dependent on the support of "traditional" #AMF mopes like yourself and the OP. As much as you might think that your views are significant for the future of the game - they're really not.

Two points about the current professional game that the #AMF mopes demonstrated a complete ignorance of and haven't really been touched on:

i) Football is by far the dominant, global televised sport, in addition to revenue from matchday tickets, merchandise, sponsorship etc. Despite this dominant status, the elite football clubs and players are only now overtaking the sums spent and earned in the leading American sport franchises - NFL; NBA; MLB. Those franchises aren't quite hermetically sealed into North American market, but their global reach is far more limited. Nobody predicts the collapse of those franchises based on a smaller market and hundred million dollar contracts being dished out - so there's no reason to claim that football is going to collapse.

ii) Transfer fees are an obsession of the public and the media: what matters to the clubs is the total outlay of fees plus wages. The costs are paid over years like in any other business. And like any other global, elite organisation, the largest clubs have skilled accountants and financial managers who know how to judge effect of those deals over the period of the contract. They also gave long-term, guaranteed commercial deals factored into their budgeting. So the idea that these clubs will simply implode due to spending sums that you don't like is wishful thinking.