ICTChris Posted August 31, 2017 Share Posted August 31, 2017 25 minutes ago, sjc said: The bubble burst in Italy after nearly 20 years of them dominating the money league stakes. There was an article about how the millenials don't generally watch live sports and prefer to watch goal clips on twitter. Like it or not this is the next generation so them paying for live games packages seems unrealistic. Combine this with your traditional fans like myself that loved watching English football and football in general (after Scottish football) that are disenfranchised with the game and no longer watch it as a live event then the bubble will certainly burst at some point. You can fill a book with "Millennials are causing the death of..." stories - my personal favourite was that millennials are causing the death of fabric softener because they don't use it. There is a number of factors around the figures that prompted these stories and most of them grouped a disparate number of trends (dip in average viewing figures for Sky games, dip in NFL figures in the US and lower viewing figures for the UCL on BT Sport) into one and drew conclusions from that. Also, the broadcasters have seen the trends and are taking actions to mitigate it, as you can see from the offerings they've put out in the last few years. Even if the millennials don't like paying for channels, that still leaves a huge group of people who do and the chances are that younger viewers will change their viewing habits as they get older - I certainly have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjc Posted August 31, 2017 Share Posted August 31, 2017 15 minutes ago, virginton said: Well no it "certainly" won't, as believe it or not a globally televised league isn't dependent on the support of "traditional" #AMF mopes like yourself and the OP. As much as you might think that your views are significant for the future of the game - they're really not. Two points about the current professional game that the #AMF mopes demonstrated a complete ignorance of and haven't really been touched on: i) Football is by far the dominant, global televised sport, in addition to revenue from matchday tickets, merchandise, sponsorship etc. Despite this dominant status, the elite football clubs and players are only now overtaking the sums spent and earned in the leading American sport franchises - NFL; NBA; MLB. Those franchises aren't quite hermetically sealed into North American market, but their global reach is far more limited. Nobody predicts the collapse of those franchises based on a smaller market and hundred million dollar contracts being dished out - so there's no reason to claim that football is going to collapse. ii) Transfer fees are an obsession of the public and the media: what matters to the clubs is the total outlay of fees plus wages. The costs are paid over years like in any other business. And like any other global, elite organisation, the largest clubs have skilled accountants and financial managers who know how to judge effect of those deals over the period of the contract. They also gave long-term, guaranteed commercial deals factored into their budgeting. So the idea that these clubs will simply implode due to spending sums that you don't like is wishful thinking. Where did I say I was #AMF or offended by transfer fees? It's the increasingly closed shop amongst the elite Clubs and the bigger leagues muscling out the competitiveness of the smaller ones in European competition that I'm bored of. The American sports are also included in the article about millenials changing their viewing habits so they would be affected also. Granted football is the World game but if Clubs continue to piss away money on wages, transfer fees and agent fees all on the basis that the next tv deal will be even bigger then the day it isn't will create a huge problem for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pandarilla Posted August 31, 2017 Author Share Posted August 31, 2017 Well no it "certainly" won't, as believe it or not a globally televised league isn't dependent on the support of "traditional" #AMF mopes like yourself and the OP. As much as you might think that your views are significant for the future of the game - they're really not.Two points about the current professional game that the #AMF mopes demonstrated a complete ignorance of and haven't really been touched on:i) Football is by far the dominant, global televised sport, in addition to revenue from matchday tickets, merchandise, sponsorship etc. Despite this dominant status, the elite football clubs and players are only now overtaking the sums spent and earned in the leading American sport franchises - NFL; NBA; MLB. Those franchises aren't quite hermetically sealed into North American market, but their global reach is far more limited. Nobody predicts the collapse of those franchises based on a smaller market and hundred million dollar contracts being dished out - so there's no reason to claim that football is going to collapse.ii) Transfer fees are an obsession of the public and the media: what matters to the clubs is the total outlay of fees plus wages. The costs are paid over years like in any other business. And like any other global, elite organisation, the largest clubs have skilled accountants and financial managers who know how to judge effect of those deals over the period of the contract. They also gave long-term, guaranteed commercial deals factored into their budgeting. So the idea that these clubs will simply implode due to spending sums that you don't like is wishful thinking. None of that has really been denied you utter welt. As always, your input is detailed, insightful, but most of all reveals you to be an utter c**t of a person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjc Posted August 31, 2017 Share Posted August 31, 2017 2 minutes ago, pandarilla said: None of that has really been denied you utter welt. As always, your input is detailed, insightful, but most of all reveals you to be an utter c**t of a person. Not like vT to assume he's the smartest person in the room, is it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pandarilla Posted August 31, 2017 Author Share Posted August 31, 2017 Not like vT to assume he's the smartest person in the room, is it. It's such a shame. He makes some excellent points but his posting style is just unpleasant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ftk Posted August 31, 2017 Share Posted August 31, 2017 Money doesn't ruin football as long as its spread out evenly to make a competitive league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pandarilla Posted August 31, 2017 Author Share Posted August 31, 2017 Money doesn't ruin football as long as its spread out evenly to make a competitive league. Do you like the English model? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ftk Posted August 31, 2017 Share Posted August 31, 2017 Do you like the English model? The money is crazy down there but the tv companies give them the money so they have to spend it. Plus they do have a very competitive league. Think the American sports have the best model where no team really dominates and many teams have a chance of winning the title. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted August 31, 2017 Share Posted August 31, 2017 24 minutes ago, pandarilla said: None of that has really been denied you utter welt. As always, your input is detailed, insightful, but most of all reveals you to be an utter c**t of a person. 9 minutes ago, pandarilla said: It's such a shame. He makes some excellent points but his posting style is just unpleasant. ^^^ verge of tears Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ftk Posted August 31, 2017 Share Posted August 31, 2017 ^^^ verge of tears No funny pics? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjc Posted August 31, 2017 Share Posted August 31, 2017 22 minutes ago, ftk said: The money is crazy down there but the tv companies give them the money so they have to spend it. Plus they do have a very competitive league. Think the American sports have the best model where no team really dominates and and many teams have a chance of winning the title. The only issue with American sports is no relegation creating a closed shop. Other than that I agree. To create conditions like that would need to be UEFA-wide in order for it to be fair. ETA - Forgot to add the franchise basis of "Clubs" over there and their moving from one City to another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
throbber Posted August 31, 2017 Share Posted August 31, 2017 11 minutes ago, pandarilla said: It's such a shame. He makes some excellent points but his posting style is just unpleasant. Don't take it personally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjc Posted August 31, 2017 Share Posted August 31, 2017 1 minute ago, virginton said: ^^^ verge of tears ^^^desperately needs some new material. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
throbber Posted August 31, 2017 Share Posted August 31, 2017 Just now, sjc said: ^^^desperately needs some new material. And a new display picture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pandarilla Posted August 31, 2017 Author Share Posted August 31, 2017 Don't take it personally. I don't throbber. He's funny sometimes, even when ripping me (or someone I agree with). Like I said, it's just frustrating. In terms of the USA sports franchise system. There are real problems with the young players coming through, dodgy college shenanigans (these young guys are so valuable but can't earn as students). There's also the whole moving a franchise thing. Sometimes they just move city. That must be horrible if you're a long term fan. My overall point is that I want it to be more connected with a healthy society. The gap is just too much (and yes I think the same about the city of London, or star actors/bands). The disconnect is unhealthy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTChris Posted August 31, 2017 Share Posted August 31, 2017 20 minutes ago, ftk said: The money is crazy down there but the tv companies give them the money so they have to spend it. Plus they do have a very competitive league. Think the American sports have the best model where no team really dominates and many teams have a chance of winning the title. You couldn't have the American sports system in football. American football, baseball, basketball and ice hockey are sports limited in terms of viewing appeal to North America. They also have the draft system that doesn't really translate at all, college sports don't have the equivalent and stuff like salary caps aren't really possible in the way they are done in the US leagues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted August 31, 2017 Share Posted August 31, 2017 50 minutes ago, sjc said: Where did I say I was #AMF or offended by transfer fees? It's the increasingly closed shop amongst the elite Clubs and the bigger leagues muscling out the competitiveness of the smaller ones in European competition that I'm bored of. Your posts positively reek of #AMF mopery - you don't need to publicly declare that. You can express your 'boredom' with the direction of club football all you want - yours is a minority viewpoint within a continually expanding viewing audience and fanbase. So it's not going to contribute to an inevitable bursting of a 'bubble' as you claimed. Quote The American sports are also included in the article about millenials changing their viewing habits so they would be affected also. The 'here's one article about how millennials are changing everything!' claim has already been dealt with. What baffles me at this stage is that you seemingly refuse to believe that the financial and commercial managers in charge of global football clubs with hundreds of millions of annual turnover at their disposal are somehow less aware of market forces in their field than either you or some chump who wrote an article. In any case, European top-flight clubs typically have long-standing commercial deals in place with sponsors and through the league bodies with major TV companies. Which undermines your delusion that there is a 'bubble' that will suddenly burst. Quote Granted football is the World game but if Clubs continue to piss away money on wages, transfer fees and agent fees all on the basis that the next tv deal will be even bigger then the day it isn't will create a huge problem for them. Except that they're not "pissing away money at all" - for most clubs these costs are accounted for by i) increasing revenue from TV, merchandising and match-day sources or ii) external investors buying a controlling stake in the club. Absolutely no club is spending money from 'the next TV deal' as you have claimed - English clubs benefited from the current record TV deal from 2016/17 and that is what is being spent now: http://www.espn.co.uk/football/english-premier-league/23/blog/post/2917119/how-premier-league-record-tv-deal-will-affect-english-football Prior to this TV deal, English top-flight clubs were on the whole financially stable. In 2014/15 Premier League clubs made an net profit of £113 million; in 2015/16 a net loss of £117 million from a £3.5 billion turnover. The vast majority of that loss was however accounted for by Aston Villa: twelve of the twenty clubs made a profit, from Leicester (champions) to Norwich (£9 million while being relegated). Four of the top six clubs that typically pay the largest transfer fees and wages made a profit - Arsenal; both Manchester clubs; Tottenham. https://www.theguardian.com/football/2017/jun/01/premier-league-finances-club-by-club The unavoidable conclusion of this debate is that you have sailed into a discussion on football finances about which you were poorly informed and based your outlook on wishful thinking and false claims about 'overspending' and 'bubbles bursting'. Then when called on it, you seem content to simply regurgitate those debunked myths in the face of evidence and reason. That's not working out too well for you though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Moonster Posted August 31, 2017 Share Posted August 31, 2017 13 hours ago, MARYHILLISWONDERFUL said: We should cut all the money in football by half then divide it evenly and put the half set aside into real problems in the real world, we have people out there dying from preventable diseases all across the world, children starving in Africa, people out on the streets with no home and no hope and it's all because of money! It's supposed to make the world go round but it's made the world morally wrong! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pandarilla Posted August 31, 2017 Author Share Posted August 31, 2017 Once again you've provided a detailed post pointed out what no-one is seriously arguing. There's no real signs that the 'bubble' will burst. But that's not the point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTChris Posted August 31, 2017 Share Posted August 31, 2017 2 minutes ago, pandarilla said: Once again you've provided a detailed post pointed out what no-one is seriously arguing. There's no real signs that the 'bubble' will burst. But that's not the point. What is the point though? Why don't you like big transfer fees or wages? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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