A Photographic History Of Scottish Football

[Bogbrush1903]

All this talk for TV footballing schedules in the past makes me reflect on the frustration of having practically no existing footage of Aberdeen playing at Pittodrie in the 1970s.

Scotsport & Sportscene or similar named programmes must've been on every weekend in the 1970s?

I know the master tapes might've been reused but surely some footage must exist somewhere.

For instance, I've seen Joey Harper score against Juventus but that's only the goal. Where's the rest of it?

In fact, I've only ever seen the Liverpool goal of the 1980 match at Pittodrie! I've never seen footage of the rest of the match and that had the English branch of the BBC present!!

 

Edited November 2, 2023 by Bogbrush1903

[HibeeJibee]

5 minutes ago, Bogbrush1903 said:

All this talk for TV footballing schedules in the past makes me reflect on the frustration of having practically no existing footage of Aberdeen playing at Pittodrie in the 1970s.

Scotsport & Sportscene or similar named programmes must've been on every weekend in the 1970s? I know the master tapes might've been reused but surely some footage must exist somewhere.

For instance, I've seen Joey Harper score against Juventus but that's only the goal. Where's the rest of it?

There may well be plenty footage in BBC or STV archives; supposedly there are also literally stacks of material in Hampden that SFL (presumably now SPFL) and/or SFA have never catalogued, or certainly made available.

Edited November 2, 2023 by HibeeJibee

[Bogbrush1903]

2 minutes ago, HibeeJibee said:

There may well be plenty footage in BBC or STV archives; supposedly there are also literally stacks of material in Hampden that SFL (presumably now SPFL) and/or SFA have never catalogued, or certainly made available.

Oh that's a positive that footage may exist but why would not make that available? My dream job would be to trawl through all that material and catalogue it...

[HibeeJibee]

Just now, Bogbrush1903 said:

Oh that's a positive that footage may exist but why would not make that available? My dream job would be to trawl through all that material and catalogue it...

Ditto... presumably nobody has yet seen it as 'commercially profitable' or 'historically worthwhile'.

STV haven't even full online TV listings archive nor footage catalogue IIRC.

[SimonLichtie]

I recently tried to get in touch with the STV archives via email but heard nothing back - have also been told by others they're not interested in anything that isn't financially worthwhile to them.... bit of a pisser with it being highly likely they have thousands of hours of old Scottish football footage from all levels (Scotland, top division, Football First, junior cup finals, Scottish Cup stuff etc etc.).

Like many others I'm sure, I'd be more than happy to put in the work required to get this stuff publically viewable....

If anyone does have any sort of contacts at STV/ BBC etc...... let me/ us know!  

[Monkey Tennis]

56 minutes ago, Bogbrush1903 said:

I did not know that Shengelia had died!

Yeah, quite sad really.

A brain hemhorrage at the age of 55 apparently.  

[O_Kahn]

1 hour ago, Bogbrush1903 said:

 

In fact, I've only ever seen the Liverpool goal of the 1980 match at Pittodrie! I've never seen footage of the rest of the match and that had the English branch of the BBC present!!

 

AFCHereWeGo mentioned recently that the Liverpool coverage had been uploaded https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CY9GzAoYTZs

[kingjoey]

10 hours ago, Bogbrush1903 said:

All this talk for TV footballing schedules in the past makes me reflect on the frustration of having practically no existing footage of Aberdeen playing at Pittodrie in the 1970s.

Scotsport & Sportscene or similar named programmes must've been on every weekend in the 1970s?

I know the master tapes might've been reused but surely some footage must exist somewhere.

For instance, I've seen Joey Harper score against Juventus but that's only the goal. Where's the rest of it?

In fact, I've only ever seen the Liverpool goal of the 1980 match at Pittodrie! I've never seen footage of the rest of the match and that had the English branch of the BBC present!!

 

I share your frustration. Scotsport and Sportscene were on every Saturday/Sunday and Aberdeen featured a fair bit, all over the country. I was at an Ayr/Aberdeen match in the early seventies with a friend and we were in the stand enclosure right in front of the TV gantry. My friend's dad worked for STV so he knew Arthur Montford and in the second half Aberdeen made their substitution. About 10 seconds after he came on, no recollection of who it was, Montford leans over and asks my friend who the sub is because he doesn't have a note of it.

[Boghead ranter]

30 minutes ago, kingjoey said:

I share your frustration. Scotsport and Sportscene were on every Saturday/Sunday and Aberdeen featured a fair bit, all over the country. I was at an Ayr/Aberdeen match in the early seventies with a friend and we were in the stand enclosure right in front of the TV gantry. My friend's dad worked for STV so he knew Arthur Montford and in the second half Aberdeen made their substitution. About 10 seconds after he came on, no recollection of who it was, Montford leans over and asks my friend who the sub is because he doesn't have a note of it.

Here, knock yourself out.  My gift to you on a Friday.

[ScottyDee1893]

On 31/10/2023 at 08:00, Monkey Tennis said:

I thought they played Cologne in the first round.

Was that called a preliminary game or a qualifier or something?

The game against Cologne is shown in the records as a Preliminary round. Anderlecht, who Dundee would beat in the QF's, also beat Real Madrid in this round. I'm not sure why they had a preliminary round as there were obviously a lot less countries in Europe then with USSR and Yugoslavia in existence.

On second thoughts though I've maybe answered my own question. The reduced number of countries compared to now maybe meant a shorter preliminary round would provide 16 entrants for the first round.

[kingjoey]

48 minutes ago, Boghead ranter said:

Here, knock yourself out.  My gift to you on a Friday.

Brilliant. You are a very kind person.

[Boghead ranter]

2 minutes ago, kingjoey said:

Brilliant. You are a very kind person.

Sons denied stonewall penalty iirc.

[HibeeJibee]

2 hours ago, ScottyDee1893 said:

The game against Cologne is shown in the records as a Preliminary round. Anderlecht, who Dundee would beat in the QF's, also beat Real Madrid in this round. I'm not sure why they had a preliminary round as there were obviously a lot less countries in Europe then with USSR and Yugoslavia in existence.

On second thoughts though I've maybe answered my own question. The reduced number of countries compared to now maybe meant a shorter preliminary round would provide 16 entrants for the first round.

It appears to have been a wholly nominal description: there were 30 entrants so literally everybody contested the Preliminary except for holders Benfica and Stade Reims who got random bye.

[Eednud]

12 minutes ago, HibeeJibee said:

It appears to have been a wholly nominal description: there were 30 entrants so literally everybody contested the Preliminary except for holders Benfica and Stade Reims who got random bye.

Apart from the first competition in 1955/56 the opening round was the Preliminary Round until 1967/68 when it was the First Round.

[HibeeJibee]

12 minutes ago, Eednud said:

Apart from the first competition in 1955/56 the opening round was the Preliminary Round until 1967/68 when it was the First Round.

... and that was only because there were 16 entrants in 1955-56 and 32 entrants in 1967-68 and 1968-69. It was not until 1972-73 when numbers briefly dipped below 32 again that it stuck as First Round regardless. From then only when numbers rose slightly above 32 were the tie(s) required to get it down branded Preliminary.

There was an interesting phenomenon in 1966-67 which had 33 entrants... despite this 2 ties were played in Preliminary Round, as holders Real Madrid still received bye to Last 16.

Edited November 3, 2023 by HibeeJibee

[kingjoey]

3 hours ago, Boghead ranter said:

Sons denied stonewall penalty iirc.

Although I did go to Boghead a couple of times, I wasn't at that one. So it was a dive. 

[tamthebam]

I can't speak for the independent tv companies but even into the 1980s the BBC used to reuse tape and wipe over programmes to save money. There are quite a few early Dr Who episodes missing for example and for those who were 80s kids there's not many episodes of Chockablock left on video. 

The BBC preferred to preserve for the nation important things like Royal visits to Inversneckie instead of classic football matches. 

[HibeeJibee]

All sorts of rumours exist - that STV did or didn't lose material in a fire at their Theatre Royal studios & store in 1969; that they did or didn't sell 'unwanted' material to the late Jim Hossack in 1980s; that they did or didn't pass 'redundant' material to clubs.

Nobody seems to know/have found out.

[Bogbrush1903]

14 hours ago, O_Kahn said:

AFCHereWeGo mentioned recently that the Liverpool coverage had been uploaded https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CY9GzAoYTZs

Whooooaaaaa!!!!! Amazing!! Thank you for directing me to this..

[Salvo Montalbano]

On 02/11/2023 at 12:11, HibeeJibee said:

BBC1 was showing Grandstand with Wales v England in Five Nations rugby union (in between horse racing, boxing and motor racing). In those days BBC2 only broadcast at night. ITV were showing World of Sport (with showjumping, racing, scrambling then wrestling). Radio Scotland carried 2nd half - after 'Afternoon Theatre' then 'Home for the Day'.

There were 25min highlights on STV + Grampian at 10:05pm, and full game on Sunday at 2:50pm on STV only... Grampian viewers got 1947 romantic comedy 'The Bishops Wife' with Cary Grant. Border viewers never saw any highlights: Saturday was 'Armchair Theatre' and Sunday was 'Border Diary' plus 'Thunderbirds'. That might imply BBC didn't even hold TV rights.


There was a full card in the English lower divisions (though Scunthorpe and Tranmere played Friday night), partial card in top division, plus a smattering in Scotland:




As was traditional various Scottish clubs travelled down south to play friendlies either side of watching the international:

Friday 14th April     Arsenal 2-1 Dunfermline Athletic
Friday 14th April     Fulham 2-1 Kilmarnock

Monday 17th April     Chelmsford City 1-3 Partick Thistle
Monday 17th April     Crystal Palace 1-1 Dundee United
Monday 17th April     Southend United 1-1 Berwick Rangers

Tuesday 18th April     Notts County 1-4 Partick Thistle

Those matches at Highbury and Craven Cottage fulfilled the tradition of offering England and Scotland fans some football entertainment in London the night before the international, as was also usually done the night before the FA Cup Final in those days.

For all the talk about the best uncapped Scotland player on the Sportsound thread, the Pars winger mentioned in that article is often called that by Dunfermline fans. Alec Edwards was superb - he made his debut at 16 and played in Europe soon after. He later joined Hibs but he only had 1 "trial" match and 1 under-23 cap to his name.

Per Wikipedia: 

Jock Stein gave Edwards his league debut just five days after his 16th birthday in February 1962, which made him the second youngest outfield player, after Andy Penman of Dundee, to ever play in a Scottish Football League match. He then featured as a 16-year-old in Dunfermline's famous 6-2 home victory against Valencia in 1962. He then went on to play for Dunfermline in the Scottish Cup Finals of 1965 and 1968, winning the latter.

Hibernian manager Eddie Turnbull signed Edwards for £13,000 in 1971. He combined well on the right side of the Hibs side with John Brownlie. He played in another Scottish Cup Final in 1972, before winning the Scottish League Cup in the following season. Hibs challenged for the league title that season as well, but fell away after Edwards was banned for eight weeks having been booked four times.

Edwards moved on to Arbroath in 1978, before retiring from professional football in 1980.

Bob Crampsey introduces highlights of Dunfermline v Valencia