Is it ok...

[ayrmad]

44 minutes ago, The Moonster said:

I'm not really defending him, I've said numerous times what he did was wrong.

Naw, you are defending him.

[Fullerene]

1 hour ago, Granny Danger said:

I find it strange that folk defend Michael Jackson.  

Maybe if he called Lorne sausage square he’d come under more scrutiny from P&B.

I guess people have some sympathy for Michael Jackson because he and his siblings were denied a childhood - if the stories are to be believed.
They spent all their time practicing and rehearsing and were never allowed to just go out and play with the other kids.

Okay - it does not justify everything he ever did but it would suggest that he was emotionally damaged from an early age.

[The OP]

The Usual Suspects and Seven are a couple of my favourite films and I am of the opinion that because Kevin Spacey was a villain in both his beastliness is irrelevant. 

If he was in a film like Patch Adams and I liked films like Patch Adams it might be a different story. 

Also, it's amazing to me that Roman Polanski is not more of a pariah. 

[Honest_Man#1]

51 minutes ago, The Moonster said:

I'm not really defending him, I've said numerous times what he did was wrong.

There was evidence that he was a full blown nonce. He managed to hush a lot of it up through paying people off and expensive lawyers, but after the documentary I watched on it, it was fairly clear he was a beast of the highest order. Whether e did it because he’d been denied a childhood or was emotionally warped is up for debate, but I’m amazed people would defend him in any way. 

That being said if I hadn’t watched the documentary then maybe I would be the same.

[ayrmad]

7 minutes ago, Fullerene said:

I guess people have some sympathy for Michael Jackson because he and his siblings were denied a childhood - if the stories are to be believed.
They spent all their time practicing and rehearsing and were never allowed to just go out and play with the other kids.

Okay - it does not justify everything he ever did but it would suggest that he was emotionally damaged from an early age.

Our prisons are rammed full of people who've had far worse childhoods than The Jacksons.

[Guts]

5 minutes ago, Honest_Man#1 said:

There was evidence that he was a full blown nonce. He managed to hush a lot of it up through paying people off and expensive lawyers, but after the documentary I watched on it, it was fairly clear he was a beast of the highest order. Whether e did it because he’d been denied a childhood or was emotionally warped is up for debate, but I’m amazed people would defend him in any way. 

That being said if I hadn’t watched the documentary then maybe I would be the same.

I didn't know there was actual evidence, do you remember what the documentary was called or have a link?

[The Moonster]

15 minutes ago, ayrmad said:

Naw, you are defending him.

If defending him is me saying I have doubts over some of the allegations made against him rather than accepting everything written about him is fact then fair enough.

6 minutes ago, Honest_Man#1 said:

There was evidence that he was a full blown nonce. He managed to hush a lot of it up through paying people off and expensive lawyers, but after the documentary I watched on it, it was fairly clear he was a beast of the highest order. Whether e did it because he’d been denied a childhood or was emotionally warped is up for debate, but I’m amazed people would defend him in any way. 

That being said if I hadn’t watched the documentary then maybe I would be the same.

I have major doubts that this documentary has anything that could be used to convict him in court, but I'm happy to watch it and see for myself.  What was it called?

[throbber]

The documentary was done by Martin Bashir in 2003 when Jackson was getting very close to one of the boys who visited his theme park, bashir totally went to town on Jackson after that and neither of them came out of it very well.

I don’t think Jackson was a paedo he just liked sleeping in the same bed and having giant cuddles with numerous children at a time. He said he found it “charming”.

[welshbairn]

1 minute ago, throbber said:

The documentary was done by Martin Bashir in 2003 when Jackson was getting very close to one of the boys who visited his theme park, bashir totally went to town on Jackson after that and neither of them came out of it very well.

I don’t think Jackson was a paedo he just liked sleeping in the same bed and having giant cuddles with numerous children at a time. He said he found it “charming”.

Sounds like a bit of a stitch up.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Living_with_Michael_Jackson

[DA Baracus]

2 minutes ago, throbber said:

The documentary was done by Martin Bashir in 2003 when Jackson was getting very close to one of the boys who visited his theme park, bashir totally went to town on Jackson after that and neither of them came out of it very well.

I don’t think Jackson was a paedo he just liked sleeping in the same bed and having giant cuddles with numerous children at a time. He said he found it “charming”.

So...a paedophile then

[Honest_Man#1]

5 minutes ago, The Moonster said:

If defending him is me saying I have doubts over some of the allegations made against him rather than accepting everything written about him is fact then fair enough.

I have major doubts that this documentary has anything that could be used to convict him in court, but I'm happy to watch it and see for myself.  What was it called?

It was a long time ago I watched it. I'll try to look it up tonight, but I don’t think it was the Bashir one Throbber is talking about, this was one specifically about the case put against him around the one child that’s parents had tried to challenge him over.

That being said, I guess the evidence wasn’t enough to win a court case, and documentaries can be inherently biased.

[throbber]

Sounds like a bit of a stitch up.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Living_with_Michael_Jackson

It totally ruined poor Micheal and was one of the major contributions to his early demise.

[Peppino Impastato]

3 hours ago, DA Baracus said:

…to listen to or watch medium (e.g. music or films) of folk who have either been a bit naughty or who have committed horrendous crimes?

 

I’ve been listening to some old Michael Jackson songs this morning. I still love a lot of his music (Bad is his best album), but the guy was a fucking mental paedophile. Strangely I threw away all of my Lostprophets albums and haven’t listened to them since the whole thing about Ian Watkins came to light.

 

The other day I watched a film featuring Kevin Spacey (The Men Who Stare at Goats; good watch) and would watch others, yet Hollywood felt it necessary to totally recast him in a movie and I doubt we’ll be seeing him in a major film again.

 

In his book Lemmy straight up says he shagged 14 and 15 year old girls and saw nothing wrong with it. I still listen to Motorhead. Jimmy Page was allegedly involved with 14 year old girls as well, and that’s before you get to the other stories of the shit Zeppelin got up to (red snappers, fanny phone calls etc), yet I still listen to Zeppelin.

 

Big Mad Mel Gibson is a noted bigot, yet the other day I watched, and enjoyed, The Patriot. I would watch any Lethal Weapon film that came on as well, and he seems to be a great director.

 

Moving to another medium, I still watch wrestling matches with Chris Benoit, despite his dreadful murders. In sports plenty of folk still paid record fees for Mike Tyson fights, and we saw some football fans defending players who had committed crimes, even blaming the victims (see those mad posts in the Edinburgh City thread).

 

So what do we think?

Tbf Michael Jackson was not a paedophile and Mike Tyson never raped anybody.

[throbber]

So...a paedophile then

No. He didn’t have a sexual interest in them, just enjoyed sharing beds.

[The Moonster]

3 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

Sounds like a bit of a stitch up.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Living_with_Michael_Jackson

I've seen that before, it certainly painted him as a weirdo but I'm not sure there was anything there that confirms he was abusing children. Bashir admitted after his death that he never saw any wrongdoing from Jackson over their 8 month period and he didn't believe he was a criminal. Jacksons friends say it was after that documentary that he went heavy on the drugs, I'm not sure I believe that but it may well have had an affect.

[throbber]

Yup, Micheal and this young lad were holding hands and it was clear that they were very close and then Bashir went to town after that and started jarring him about how he likes to sleep in bed with kids etc then this boys parents went all out for compensation and then Jackson had his big court case in 2005 which he was found not guilty in.

He did pay off families in our of court settlements for cases which make people think he was guilty but he was that rich that a few million quid might have been an easier option than a long and gruelling court case.

If he was that notorious a paedophile then loads of kids would have come forward after his death.

[Honest_Man#1]

@Caveman

Do you remember what documentary this was?

[welshbairn]

Gandhi's another weird one.

http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/books/features/thrill-of-the-chaste-the-truth-about-gandhis-sex-life-1937411.html

[Bobby Skidmarks]

4 minutes ago, throbber said:

Yup, Micheal and this young lad were holding hands and it was clear that they were very close and then Bashir went to town after that and started jarring him about how he likes to sleep in bed with kids etc then this boys parents went all out for compensation and then Jackson had his big court case in 2005 which he was found not guilty in.

He did pay off families in our of court settlements for cases which make people think he was guilty but he was that rich that a few million quid might have been an easier option than a long and gruelling court case.

If he was that notorious a paedophile then loads of kids would have come forward after his death.

My memory of that trial is the fruitcake woman releasing doves when his innocent verdict was read out. 

He paid off Jordy Chandler £20m, why would you do that to someone you were cuddling with? Also I think there are a few people still with a case raised against his estate, Wade Robson being one. 

[MONKMAN]

If he was that notorious a paedophile then loads of kids would have come forward after his death.

You don’t need Saville levels of victims to be a certified nonce.

This was a man who could afford the best lawyers on the planet, so why the need to settle out of court instead of clearing his name.

For the record, the nonce scale goes something along the lines of;

Tedi >>> Michael Jackson >>> Gary Glitter >>>>>> Grown men who watch WWF >>>>> Ian Watkins