Dundee United 2018/2019

[Szamo's_Ammo]

4 minutes ago, DeeBairn said:

Don't remind me that McCann is a manager, makes me laugh. Still chuckle at the tantrums he and McNamara threw when they didn't get the Falkirk job. Not often we manage to dodge two bullets at once. 

That would be the Mel & Sue of football management.

[Ludo*1]

I can't believe team's managed by Csaba Laszlo and a manager that McCann has improved upon in Hartley have their fans having a pop at him.

[Szamo's_Ammo]

4 minutes ago, Ludo*1 said:

I can't believe team's managed by Csaba Laszlo and a manager that McCann has improved upon in Hartley have their fans having a pop at him.

Not who I was expecting.

Had a tenner on bobby at 7/4

[DeeBairn]

24 minutes ago, Szamo's_Ammo said:

Not who I was expecting.

Had a tenner on bobby at 7/4

I had SweeperDee at evens tbf.

[Accent-Unknown]

Mike Martin looks like the kind of person that in primary school got his mum to cut the crusts off his sandwiches.

[DeeBairn]

29 minutes ago, Ludo*1 said:

I can't believe team's managed by Csaba Laszlo and a manager that McCann has improved upon in Hartley have their fans having a pop at him.

So a 10th and a 9th under McCann are better than a Championship win, and a 6th and 8th in the Premiership?

[Ludo*1]

3 minutes ago, DeeBairn said:

So a 10th and a 9th under McCann are better than a Championship win, and a 6th and 8th in the Premiership?

The 10th that McCann got us was a considerable improvement from the 12th that Hartley had us heading for that season. Last season and still this pre-season, McCann has been working on the clusterfuck of a shambles of a squad that Hartley left us with.

So in short, yes, he's had a much tougher job than Hartley had at Dens and has steadily improved us from where Hartley left us.

[DeeBairn]

1 minute ago, Ludo*1 said:

The 10th that McCann got us was a considerable improvement from the 12th that Hartley had us heading for that season. Last season and still this pre-season, McCann has been working on the clusterfuck of a shambles of a squad that Hartley left us with.

So in short, yes, he's had a much tougher job than Hartley had at Dens and has steadily improved us from where Hartley left us.

Including loaning out what most of your fans seem to think is your only striker in Haber? 

[Ludo*1]

Just now, DeeBairn said:

Including loaning out what most of your fans seem to think is your only striker in Haber? 

What is your point? I never said I thought McCann was a perfect manager, just that he's improved upon Hartley.

[RandomGuy.]

11 minutes ago, DeeBairn said:

So a 10th and a 9th under McCann are better than a Championship win, and a 6th and 8th in the Premiership?

Dundee fans have a real blindspot about where McCann's taking them. It'll sink in eventually. 

[Ludo*1]

2 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

Dundee fans have a real blindspot about where McCann's taking them. It'll sink in eventually. 

Do they? I reckon this could quite easily be McCann's final season at Dens if he doesn't address our attacking options and soon. That doesn't defeat the fact that he continuously successfully mugged off the fat grass last season though which is probably where you think the Dundee fans are overly 'blind' when it comes to McCann.

[RandomGuy.]

8 minutes ago, Ludo*1 said:

Do they? I reckon this could quite easily be McCann's final season at Dens if he doesn't address our attacking options and soon. That doesn't defeat the fact that he continuously successfully mugged off the fat grass last season though which is probably where you think the Dundee fans are overly 'blind' when it comes to McCann.

Yes he "mugged off" a manager, a manager who's team had thumped McCann's 4-1 just weeks before. Dundee fans have a blindspot that they can't see beyond his words. 

If he wasn't a Dundee legend, who could talk the talk, he'd already have been forced out. 

[Ludo*1]

Just now, RandomGuy. said:

Yes he "mugged off" a manager, a manager who's team had thumped McCann's 4-1 just weeks before. Dundee fans have a blindspot that they can't see beyond his words. 

If he wasn't a Dundee legend, who could talk the talk, he'd already have been forced out. 

He mugged him off so much that the manager in question was bleating about how McCann 'may have won the battle, but I won the war' at your club's PotY do.

He really wouldn't have been.

[DeeBairn]

19 minutes ago, Ludo*1 said:

What is your point? I never said I thought McCann was a perfect manager, just that he's improved upon Hartley.

I guess my point was, Hartley had better finishes and got goals out of Haber, whilst McCann has let him out on loan without apparently getting a decent replacement in.

 

Half of Hartleys issues was having players sold out from under him without being given adequate money to replace them. Pretty much the same patter that put Utd down.

 

EDIT: Competent coaches don't loan good players out when that position is light, and doubly so when they have failed to recruit cover.

Edited July 29, 2018 by DeeBairn

[RandomGuy.]

Just now, Ludo*1 said:

He mugged him off so much that the manager in question was bleating about how McCann 'may have won the battle, but I won the war' at your club's PotY do.

He really wouldn't have been.

TW was pished and reacting to, also pished, fans shouting stuff about McCann to him

Again though, that has nothing to do with his ability to manage, and just helps emphasise the point Dundee fans refuse to judge him purely as a manager. 

[Ludo*1]

22 minutes ago, DeeBairn said:

I guess my point was, Hartley had better finishes and got goals out of Haber, whilst McCann has let him out on loan without apparently getting a decent replacement in.

 

Half of Hartleys issues was having players sold out from under him without being given adequate money to replace them. Pretty much the same patter that put Utd down.

 

EDIT: Competent coaches don't loan good players out when that position is light, and doubly so when they have failed to recruit cover.

Are you seriously trying to put judgement on Hartley's failures at Dens down to the board that allowed him to bring in 40+ players over his tenure at Dens including having a squad that had almost 30 senior players?! Fs. Try and not talk about that which you don't have a clue about. Hartley was very well backed, backed more so than any other Dundee manager since the Bonetti's.

Hartley's issues were tying players up like El Bahk, Hateley, Vincent, Loy, Nicky Low, Danny Williams and Yordi on multiple year contracts when none were near good enough. That combined with panic buys such as Ojamaa, Klok and Kevin Gomis after he realised he'd fucked recruitment up were what cost Hartley.

Competent coaches don't need to have a complete squad turnover every single season either. If we're comparing Hartley getting goals out of Haber as to his one plus point over McCann - Then I'll concede that. McCann might have it this season, but he comes absolutely nowhere near the clusterfuck and damage that Hartley did in his final season.

20 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

TW was pished and reacting to, also pished, fans shouting stuff about McCann to him

Again though, that has nothing to do with his ability to manage, and just helps emphasise the point Dundee fans refuse to judge him purely as a manager. 

McCann - Purely as a manager has broken our transfer record in terms of bringing money into the club. He's instilled his own style of play that is being utilised right down through our younger groups and has brought through a whole host of younger players who look like they can crack on and have good careers at Dens. He had us finishing well clear of the relegation places all the while trying to get complete duds on massive contracts such as Tom Hatelely, James Vincent and Rory Loy off the books.

He's not an amazing manager, not by a long shot and has many blind spots that might lead to him being offloaded, but that's not a terrible effort in his first season as a manager.

Edited July 29, 2018 by Ludo*1

[PartyFears2]

Dundee will be 10th again this season.

And if United don’t get promoted (highly likely) then it’ll go down as a successful season.

McCann will continue to walk on water.

[DeeBairn]

11 minutes ago, Ludo*1 said:

Are you seriously trying to put judgement on Hartley's failures at Dens down to the board that allowed him to bring in 60+ players over his tenure at Dens including having a squad that had almost 30 senior players?! Fs. Try and not talk about that which you don't have a clue about. Hartley was very well backed, backed more so than any other Dundee manager since the Bonetti's.

Hartley's issues were tying players up like El Bahk, Hateley, Vincent, Loy, Nicky Low, Danny Williams and Yordi on multiple year contracts when none were near good enough. That combined with panic buys such as Ojamaa, Klok and Kevin Gomis after he realised he'd fucked recruitment up were what cost Hartley.

Competent coaches don't need to have a complete squad turnover every single season either. If we're comparing Hartley getting goals out of Haber as to his one plus point over McCann - Then I'll concede that. McCann might have it this season, but he comes absolutely nowhere near the clusterfuck and damage that Hartley did in his final season.

McCann - Purely as a manager has broken our transfer record in terms of bringing money into the club. He's instilled his own style of play that is being utilised right down through our younger groups and has brought through a whole host of younger players who look like they can crack on and have good careers at Dens. He had us finishing well clear of the relegation places all the while trying to get complete duds on massive contracts such as Tom Hatelely, James Vincent and Rory Loy off the books.

He's not an amazing manager, not by a long shot and has many blind spots that might lead to him being offloaded, but that's not a terrible effort in his first season as a manager.

I make it 40 over three premier league seasons, some of whom were sold for a good chunk of money after scoring a bucket of goals, so unless he signed 20 or more in the Championship..? And given that he got you out of that league, I'm not sure why that would even be an issue. If the board hadn't sold your best two strikers in god knows how many years, are you seriously suggesting that Hartley would have been sacked or that the season would have ended the same? Of course it wouldn't.  Yes, he signs a lot of players, though that's hardly unique to him. El Bakh was a gamble that a lot of coaches would have taken, given that he was ripping up League One. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. Hateley was always going to be a bust, I'll give you that. No idea about Vincent, Dunfermline fans seem to like him, so he's probably shit, right enough. Loy was playing well at Falkirk while battling with depression, seems the added stress of the Premier League didn't help things.  No idea about the rest.

 

As far as McCann goes, you can only really judge him at the end of the season, if he has spent the last season and a half clearing out the mess, then the honeymoon is over and whatever happens now is his to won.

[Ludo*1]

2 minutes ago, DeeBairn said:

I make it 40 over three premier league seasons, some of whom were sold for a good chunk of money after scoring a bucket of goals, so unless he signed 20 or more in the Championship..? And given that he got you out of that league, I'm not sure why that would even be an issue. If the board hadn't sold your best two strikers in god knows how many years, are you seriously suggesting that Hartley would have been sacked or that the season would have ended the same? Of course it wouldn't.  Yes, he signs a lot of players, though that's hardly unique to him. El Bakh was a gamble that a lot of coaches would have taken, given that he was ripping up League One. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. Hateley was always going to be a bust, I'll give you that. No idea about Vincent, Dunfermline fans seem to like him, so he's probably shit, right enough. Loy was playing well at Falkirk while battling with depression, seems the added stress of the Premier League didn't help things.  No idea about the rest.

 

As far as McCann goes, you can only really judge him at the end of the season, if he has spent the last season and a half clearing out the mess, then the honeymoon is over and whatever happens now is his to won.

It was actually 44 and I've revised my post. The 2 that were sold for a good chunk of money were the 2 that you were previously saying contributed to Hartley's downfall, you can't have it both ways. From my knowledge, no-one else out of the 44 Hartley signings were sold for money. Indeed, if you look at our accounts, the profits from those two were negligible due to the amount of contracts Hartley would rip up.

Bomber was on target for getting us out of that league, so how much of a plaudit that is, I don't know.  I liked Hartley, I really did and I hope he's a success for you as he's the hardest working manager I've ever seen at Dens, but overall, his last season far outweighed any good he'd done unfortunately.

Your last point is absolutely spot on though.

[DeeBairn]

14 minutes ago, Ludo*1 said:

It was actually 44 and I've revised my post. The 2 that were sold for a good chunk of money were the 2 that you were previously saying contributed to Hartley's downfall, you can't have it both ways. From my knowledge, no-one else out of the 44 Hartley signings were sold for money. Indeed, if you look at our accounts, the profits from those two were negligible due to the amount of contracts Hartley would rip up.

Bomber was on target for getting us out of that league, so how much of a plaudit that is, I don't know.  I liked Hartley, I really did and I hope he's a success for you as he's the hardest working manager I've ever seen at Dens, but overall, his last season far outweighed any good he'd done unfortunately.

Your last point is absolutely spot on though.

My point was that having them both sold was half his issue, though I'll concede that he wasted the money in an effort to find a replacement. Though did he not play El Bakh out wide or in midfield a lot? If so, that wouldn't help, neither did Loys issues. Will never know though. I'd challenge any manager to replace strikers like Kane and Hemmings though, just doesn't seem possible that often, McCann is still looking after a year and a half.

 

I hope Hartley makes a fist of it too, the Dunfermline fans are already unbearable p***ks. I'll have to emigrate if they win the league.