Drug deaths in Scotland hit record high

[RH33]

Poverty is a disease and we've seen the number of children living in poverty increase which will have a knock on effect into adulthood.

We need to treat drug addiction as a health issue not a crime issue.

The "war on drugs" isn't getting very far but it would be political suicide to push forward legalisation. We're still very much a small c, conservative country both at Scottish and UK level. 

 

[Loonytoons]

19 minutes ago, RH33 said:

Poverty is a disease and we've seen the number of children living in poverty increase which will have a knock on effect into adulthood.

We need to treat drug addiction as a health issue not a crime issue.

The "war on drugs" isn't getting very far but it would be political suicide to push forward legalisation. We're still very much a small c, conservative country both at Scottish and UK level. 

 

Basically, this.

[Boo Khaki]

1 hour ago, ICTChris said:

 

What the hell happened in 2014 with cocaine in Scotland?  Was there some sort of two-for-one offer going on?  Same with pregablin in 2011.

Pregabalin was only licenced in the UK in 2004 IIRC. It's become a common prescription for people taking psychiatric drugs because it can combat some of the side-effects. As with everything psychiatric drug related, there are trends and fashions. Older doctors tend to stick to the drugs they know, younger ones tend toward newer treatments. Pfizer also pushed Pregabalin heavily for "non traditional" use in the late 2000's, 2010'ish, around about the time diagnoses like Fibromyalgia first appeared.

My own suspicion is that it's a simple case of Pregabalin being misused from 2011 onwards purely because that's the point where there was a hell of a lot more of it being prescribed for legitimate use, and a resultant massive increase in the amount of it in homes and pharmacies.

[doulikefish]

Should just change the way deaths are recorded like they did in England and Wales and the problem disappears

But on a serious note as others have said ,this needs to get treated as a health issue and not a crime issue but sadly this isn't happening anytime soon due the stigma that revolves around drug use 

[101]

1 hour ago, Boghead ranter said:

I'm completely uninformed as to drug prices, but a night out on the drink costs what, £50-100, depending on what you drink, where you drink etc.

Does an opiate hit cost that much?

 No idea what opiates would cost but you aren’t getting a gram of cocaine for that. 
 

Sadly I know 2 under 18s who will be included in this years figures with the ODing on Ket. One of them was 15. Awful.

Now, how you address 15 year olds taking ketamine I have no idea, I guess needs more money spent in schools which won’t happen any time soon.

[BukyOHare]

1 hour ago, RH33 said:

We need to treat drug addiction as a health issue not a crime issue.

Is drug addiction treated as a crime issue?

Genuine question.

[Boo Khaki]

18 minutes ago, 101 said:

 No idea what opiates would cost but you aren’t getting a gram of cocaine for that. 
 

Sadly I know 2 under 18s who will be included in this years figures with the ODing on Ket. One of them was 15. Awful.

Now, how you address 15 year olds taking ketamine I have no idea, I guess needs more money spent in schools which won’t happen any time soon.

The idea of 15 year old zombies in ket holes shocks me, but then I remember being younger than that, and a fair few kids in school staggering around with a bag full of glue welded to their pus. 

I think there's an element of these things simply being a trend with young folk. Glue was all the rage in the late 70's/early 80's, then restrictions were brought in on storage and sale which seemed to put the kybosh on it, but then I remember kids buzzing lighter fluid, and around the time I left school MDMA had started up.

I'm not for one moment suggesting we should just shrug and accept kids being kids, but it does feel like if you tackle one thing, kids being kids, they'll just move on to something new.

[ICTChris]

Talking about ages, this year for the first time there were more drug misuse deaths in the over 55 group than the under 35.

[RH33]

1 hour ago, BukyOHare said:

Is drug addiction treated as a crime issue?

Genuine question.

By having source illegal drugs, associated crime to fund it....leading to criminal records etc.

Very few treatment places available and well documented drugs easily available in prison.

Maybe set up my original answer badly, addition is a medical issue obviously.

[A Diamond For Me]

1 hour ago, ICTChris said:

Talking about ages, this year for the first time there were more drug misuse deaths in the over 55 group than the under 35.

So is this a factor of the problem users being an aging cohort, then?  If so I guess you might expect the rate of deaths to increase (as years of drug use eventually catch up with people) and then decline.

[A Diamond For Me]

2 hours ago, doulikefish said:

Should just change the way deaths are recorded like they did in England and Wales and the problem disappears

But on a serious note as others have said ,this needs to get treated as a health issue and not a crime issue but sadly this isn't happening anytime soon due the stigma that revolves around drug use 

For so many things the focus is on dealing with the symptoms.  Even when the causes are well known, they're just much more complex/ expensive/ unpopular to deal with than the symptoms.  You can see it with people who think that the far right is solved now because some arseholes are getting locked up, while the underlying conditions that allow these ideologies and discourses to fester away will largely remain in place.

[Peil]

6 hours ago, scottsdad said:

White Lightning was pretty much the focus of MUP -  went from £2.99 a bottle to £11.25. 

Hardcore alcoholics stopped eating and paying other bills to keep drinking this. I suspect that drug users who also drank this simply upped the drug usage. 

I remember quite clearly the day it came into effect. I was living in Dalmuir at the time and there was a group of 3 jakies at the co-op doing their nut that they couldn't afford their usual carry out. 

[Boo Khaki]

I was under the impression minimum unit prices have been a rip-roaring success, because every single jake I see these days appears to be cutting about with a large Costa/Strabucks/Cafe Nero cup in their hands.

Different for the auld timers in Nicholson/Patrick Square. You still see the usual cans/plastic bottles, but your more discerning jake seems to drink more coffee that hardcore Leith hipsters nowadays.

[PossilYM]

8 hours ago, ICTChris said:

Talking about ages, this year for the first time there were more drug misuse deaths in the over 55 group than the under 35.

Is that death via the use of Class A street drugs rather than say sleeping pills prescribed by a doctor.

[GTG_03]

13 hours ago, Boghead ranter said:

Told you I knew nothing! 

Jon Snow found.

13 hours ago, RH33 said:

Poverty is a disease and we've seen the number of children living in poverty increase which will have a knock on effect into adulthood.

We need to treat drug addiction as a health issue not a crime issue.

The "war on drugs" isn't getting very far but it would be political suicide to push forward legalisation. We're still very much a small c, conservative country both at Scottish and UK level. 

 

Exactly this. I would like to see some political parties bringing forward legalisation policies, at least get it into the public thinking.

[The Moonster]

16 hours ago, scottsdad said:

Have a look at this chart, from the official report that was published today. . 

I think that given that the poorest in society are 15 times more likely to die from drug misuse than people in more affluent areas, this suggests that drugs are in many respects available to those with little money. 

Second, look at the jump from 2017-2018. It's massive. That's when MUP was introduced. It may have been that people who were mixing drink and drugs simply couldn't afford the drink any more, with poor outcomes. 

Drugs are available to these people because they aren't always paying for it at the point of sale. There will be tick lists up and down the country with hundreds of not thousands of heroin users in debt. They can't go to Asda and ask for tick on a bottle of cider. 

I'd agree with the suggestion that people who are taking drugs and drinking will likely forego the drink in favour of more drugs rather than alcoholics who didn't take drugs previously replacing their drink with drugs. 

[scottsdad]

Just noticed the graph showing pregabalin/gabapentin. I used them for a couple of years for nerve pain. Never got even the slightest buzz off either of them. One (can't remember which) was really mood altering, made me very snappish and angry. Then switched to the other. 

The one drug I'll never use again is tramadol. Again, got it for testicular pain (see 'The Snip' thread for details). Used it for ages, it helped with the pain, and never once felt any kind of high. The doc told me to try to stop using it. Sure, I said. 

That week was horrendous. Insane muscle spasms in my back and biceps. Feeling sick and dizzy. I realised I was in some kind of withdrawal. Never used tramadol or any kind of codeine since. 

[effeffsee_the2nd]

11 hours ago, Boo Khaki said:

I was under the impression minimum unit prices have been a rip-roaring success, because every single jake I see these days appears to be cutting about with a large Costa/Strabucks/Cafe Nero cup in their hands.

Different for the auld timers in Nicholson/Patrick Square. You still see the usual cans/plastic bottles, but your more discerning jake seems to drink more coffee that hardcore Leith hipsters nowadays.

I'll bite,  Minimum pricing along with other measures was never meant to stop the hardcore, they can't/won't be stopped. It was more about slowing young people/ occasional jakes from getting absolutely hammered on shrapnel, at the time they were first proposed alcohol was, in relative terms, the cheapest it had ever been.   I remember my auld man telling me that in the pre supermarket bargain days, getting a carry out cost almost the same as what getting the drinks in a pub cost

[effeffsee_the2nd]

27 minutes ago, scottsdad said:

Just noticed the graph showing pregabalin/gabapentin. I used them for a couple of years for nerve pain. Never got even the slightest buzz off either of them. One (can't remember which) was really mood altering, made me very snappish and angry. Then switched to the other. 

The one drug I'll never use again is tramadol. Again, got it for testicular pain (see 'The Snip' thread for details). Used it for ages, it helped with the pain, and never once felt any kind of high. The doc told me to try to stop using it. Sure, I said. 

That week was horrendous. Insane muscle spasms in my back and biceps. Feeling sick and dizzy. I realised I was in some kind of withdrawal. Never used tramadol or any kind of codeine since. 

I've never been on painkillers but I could easily end up with a problem if I had.  I find it very difficult to settle at night, my mind takes hours to slow down and it's not easy to relax.if i had a supply of tablets that made you space out, sit contented and fall asleep quickly they would be extremely tempting.  it's not so much about getting "high" from it 

[scottsdad]

21 minutes ago, effeffsee_the2nd said:

I've never been on painkillers but I could easily end up with a problem if I had.  I find it very difficult to settle at night, my mind takes hours to slow down and it's not easy to relax.if i had a supply of tablets that made you space out, sit contented and fall asleep quickly they would be extremely tempting.  it's not so much about getting "high" from it 

I never even got that. It helped with the pain, sure, but nothing else.