Off The Ball - Is it good?

[Dons_1988]

45 minutes ago, TheScarf said:

England were half arsing that game. They could’ve gone up about 3 gears if it was required.

Terrible take. 

And what’s this nonsense about Ryan jack?

Toss up as to who’s the bigger fanny, no competition whatsoever on football ability. 

[mozam76]

On 09/01/2024 at 06:49, Salvo Montalbano said:

The best quiz show there has even been with the most knowledgeable quiz host there's ever been? Plenty, I'd imagine.

Now, Question or Nominate?

Any excuse to post this piece of quiz magnificence. 
 

[rainbowrising]

3 hours ago, TheScarf said:

England were half arsing that game. They could’ve gone up about 3 gears if it was required.

Nope. What was shown up in that match was replicated in the actual tournament.

That match displayed so many problems for England in so many areas, managed by a poor, naive manager. Covered up by "we had the game won, nothing to worry about..".  A tournament that included one of the all time great WTF, last minute pointless penalty tackles against Romania that knocked them out. 

 

Edited January 14 by rainbowrising

[Gibby82]

Ferguson was arguably more talented but McTominay, McGregor and McGinn have all delivered more for Scotland than he did.

[BucksburnDandy]

12 minutes ago, Gibby82 said:

Ferguson was arguably more talented but McTominay, McGregor and McGinn have all delivered more for Scotland than he did.

That's why all three would play in front of Ferguson. All three have consistently delivered more often for Scotland than Ferguson. I don't think there can be much debate that Barry Ferguson would make the squad in front of Lewis Ferguson or Ryan Jack for example but Ferguson did not achieve what McGregor, McTominay and McGinn have for Scotland.

 

In my mind it would be Ferguson v McGregor. Who is more talented is absolutely up for debate but since 2020, it is hard to make an argument that McGregor has not been very good for Scotland.

[VincentGuerin]

6 minutes ago, BucksburnDandy said:

That's why all three would play in front of Ferguson. All three have consistently delivered more often for Scotland than Ferguson. I don't think there can be much debate that Barry Ferguson would make the squad in front of Lewis Ferguson or Ryan Jack for example but Ferguson did not achieve what McGregor, McTominay and McGinn have for Scotland.

 

In my mind it would be Ferguson v McGregor. Who is more talented is absolutely up for debate but since 2020, it is hard to make an argument that McGregor has not been very good for Scotland.

That's not really a logical conclusion to reach.

Ferguson spent most of his Scotland career playing in either shite teams or dysfunctional teams.

The current squad is well-coached and has good players for Ferguson to feed off in a lot of positions.

You can make a fair point that Ferguson's attitude eventually let him down, but I think that if the 2000 Ferguson were playing now, he'd be the focal point of our midfield while playing regularly in the English Premier League. McGregor is a very good player, but Ferguson was better.

* ETA: I don't think Ferguson's 2009 disgrace would have happened had he left Rangers early and gone abroad or to England, as Gilmour has. He spent a long time in the Rangers Monster Munch environment, and I think that showed in his behaviour.

Edited January 14 by VincentGuerin

[Stylish Kid]

15 hours ago, Hoose Rice said:

Sorry but disagree.  Ferguson would 100% get in the Scotland team atm.   

Disagree with you there.

 

1) he never performed for Scotland

2) his attitude stunk so wouldn't "get on" in the current team

3) as the guy you quoted said - every other midfield option does what Barry did, but better.

[Crawford Bridge]

I love that Bazza is so strongly associated with Monster Munch. 

[Hoose Rice]

4 minutes ago, Stylish Kid said:

Disagree with you there.

 

1) he never performed for Scotland

2) his attitude stunk so wouldn't "get on" in the current team

3) as the guy you quoted said - every other midfield option does what Barry did, but better.

He was fantastic for Scotland at times and ran the show in games against a lot of bigger countries.   His attitude was shite yes, but he would work well under a coach like Clarke - see Walter Smith.    I disagree again, he was a much better player than McGregor or Gilmour. 

[VincentGuerin]

3 minutes ago, Hoose Rice said:

He was fantastic for Scotland at times and ran the show in games against a lot of bigger countries.   His attitude was shite yes, but he would work well under a coach like Clarke - see Walter Smith.    I disagree again, he was a much better player than McGregor or Gilmour. 

I find the idea of folk arguing for McGregor being a better player bizarre.

Ferguson excelled when Rangers had a good team in the Champions League and the UEFA Cup and was a good player for Blackburn and Birmingham down south. McGregor is a good player, but his career is far less impressive, and he is far less proven as a good player at a high level.

The idea that Ferguson couldn't have contributed what McGregor does to the national team (with a good coach and good teammates etc) is mad.

[Hoose Rice]

Just now, VincentGuerin said:

I find the idea of folk arguing for McGregor being a better player bizarre.

Ferguson excelled when Rangers had a good team in the Champions League and the UEFA Cup and was a good player for Blackburn and Birmingham down south. McGregor is a good player, but his career is far less impressive, and he is far less proven as a good player at a high level.

The idea that Ferguson couldn't have contributed what McGregor does to the national team (with a good coach and good teammates etc) is mad.

I can only imagine it's because McGregor is here and now and doesn't seem as much of a tosser than Ferguson.  That doesn't make him a better player though.   

[Dirty Sanchez]

We were legitimately unlucky in both games against England in the Euro 2000 play-off.

The score in the first leg was flattering to them as well. I was at both matches and memories from the Wembley one include Neil McCann terrorising Sol Campbell all night and Alan Shearer killing time at the corner flag. Tony Adams went straight to Craig Brown at the end to tell him how good we had been.

All a bit diddy outfit hard luck story, but there you are.

Edited January 14 by Dirty Sanchez

[VincentGuerin]

2 minutes ago, Dirty Sanchez said:

We were legitimately unlucky in both games against England in the Euro 2000 play-off.

The score in the first leg was flattering to them as well. I was at both matches and memories from the Wembley one include Neil McCann terrorising Sol Campbell all night and Alan Shearer killing time at the corner flag. Tony Adams went straight to Craig Brown at the end to tell him to tell him good we had been.

All a bit diddy outfit hard luck story, but there you are.

Lambert getting injured cost us the tie, for me.

It was probably the last time we were close to being as good as them.

Obviously, they were a man-for-man better side, but we had good players and wiped the floor with them at Wembley.

As per much of our recent history, we were a side that lacked a striker. We wouldn't have lost at Hampden if we'd had one.

Edited January 14 by VincentGuerin

[Stylish Kid]

16 minutes ago, Hoose Rice said:

I can only imagine it's because McGregor is here and now and doesn't seem as much of a tosser than Ferguson.  That doesn't make him a better player though.   

Both have faces I'd never tire of slapping, but McGregor nudges that metric as his shiny rubbery complexion would make an excellent noise when slapped 

[BucksburnDandy]

36 minutes ago, VincentGuerin said:

That's not really a logical conclusion to reach.

Ferguson spent most of his Scotland career playing in either shite teams or dysfunctional teams.

The current squad is well-coached and has good players for Ferguson to feed off in a lot of positions.

You can make a fair point that Ferguson's attitude eventually let him down, but I think that if the 2000 Ferguson were playing now, he'd be the focal point of our midfield while playing regularly in the English Premier League. McGregor is a very good player, but Ferguson was better.

* ETA: I don't think Ferguson's 2009 disgrace would have happened had he left Rangers early and gone abroad or to England, as Gilmour has. He spent a long time in the Rangers Monster Munch environment, and I think that showed in his behaviour.

It's an entirely logical conclusion to reach.

 

Ferguson's talent is not in question nor would I question him playing in inferior Scotland teams.

 

However McGregor (that's who Ferguson is most like) has delivered more for Scotland. Additionally, you have to look at the balance of the midfield. In my view, McGregor is a better balance to McTominay (able to sit and release McTominay), Gilmour (can go box to box with Gilmour sitting) and Jack (see Gilmour) as well as bringing the left foot balance to the right footed players in the middle of the park.

 

I think it is logical to look at the squad we have now and say who has delivered more for Scotland and who brings a better balance to our other midfielders.

[VincentGuerin]

2 minutes ago, BucksburnDandy said:

It's an entirely logical conclusion to reach.

 

Ferguson's talent is not in question nor would I question him playing in inferior Scotland teams.

 

However McGregor (that's who Ferguson is most like) has delivered more for Scotland. Additionally, you have to look at the balance of the midfield. In my view, McGregor is a better balance to McTominay (able to sit and release McTominay), Gilmour (can go box to box with Gilmour sitting) and Jack (see Gilmour) as well as bringing the left foot balance to the right footed players in the middle of the park.

 

I think it is logical to look at the squad we have now and say who has delivered more for Scotland and who brings a better balance to our other midfielders.

I feel this is a "small vs far away" moment.

[BucksburnDandy]

I also think the fact this level of debate is raging on shows Tam Cowan was talking shite, in that Ferguson may not start for Scotland currently. He may well do but this level of debate shows it is not a foregone conclusion.

 

Mind you, it does fit the petty and ill informed motto of the show in giving a debatable opinion. And it's a far better talking point than his shite cultural references from the days of yore.

[BucksburnDandy]

Just now, VincentGuerin said:

I feel this is a "small vs far away" moment.

It's down to personal preference really isn't it because Ferguson and McGregor were and are both unquestionably talented footballers. It's who we think better suits the current team.

 

Frankly, it is great to see a healthier debate on here than the weekly VAR dirge that Sportsound rolls out.

[VincentGuerin]

7 minutes ago, BucksburnDandy said:

It's down to personal preference really isn't it because Ferguson and McGregor were and are both unquestionably talented footballers. It's who we think better suits the current team.

 

Frankly, it is great to see a healthier debate on here than the weekly VAR dirge that Sportsound rolls out.

How old are you?  (just realised that sounds needlessly Sportsound, I meant it to be relevant)

I think it's a relevant question.

They're both talented players, yes, but I don't think anyone who witnessed the first four or five years of Ferguson's career would agree they are equally talented players.

Edited January 14 by VincentGuerin

[Stylish Kid]

Someone I used to know summed up the issue of perception with Ferguson well -

At the same time England had Michael Owen breaking through and we needed our own "next big thing", and everyone jumped on the bazza train.