Ray Patterson Posted February 16, 2020 Share Posted February 16, 2020 1 hour ago, Gordon EF said: If they can get to 16-16-16 (8 additional sides), that makes sense. If it's more then regionalising or conferencing at tier 8 makes sense. This, but conference in 2020-21, before regionalise the season after (if more than 8 applicants). Like I've said before regionalisation allows a better pathway to bolt on the three Ams leagues underneath the EoS 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnie_man Posted February 16, 2020 Author Share Posted February 16, 2020 Just now, ArabAuslander said: This, but conference in 2020-21, before regionalise the season after (if more than 8 applicants). Like I've said before regionalisation allows a better pathway to bolt on the three Ams leagues underneath the EoS Amateur leagues won't be "bolted on" 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Patterson Posted February 16, 2020 Share Posted February 16, 2020 Just now, Burnie_man said: Amateur leagues won't be "bolted on" I'm skipping several steps, but if the LEAFA, Fife and Border Ams Leagues could at some point join the pyramid, with some form of optional promotion/relegation that we see in the lower rungs of the English pyramid. Or even make the EoS more attractive to the more ambitious clubs such as Duns, AM Soccer etc. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnie_man Posted February 16, 2020 Author Share Posted February 16, 2020 Just now, ArabAuslander said: I'm skipping several steps, but if the LEAFA, Fife and Border Ams Leagues could at some point join the pyramid, with some form of optional promotion/relegation that we see in the lower rungs of the English pyramid. Or even make the EoS more attractive to the more ambitious clubs such as Duns, AM Soccer etc. Senior clubs wont drop to Amatuer status. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairWeatherFan Posted February 16, 2020 Share Posted February 16, 2020 1 minute ago, ArabAuslander said: I'm skipping several steps, but if the LEAFA, Fife and Border Ams Leagues could at some point join the pyramid, with some form of optional promotion/relegation that we see in the lower rungs of the English pyramid. Or even make the EoS more attractive to the more ambitious clubs such as Duns, AM Soccer etc. Or you just let amateur clubs apply to the senior or even junior leagues like they've always done. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Patterson Posted February 16, 2020 Share Posted February 16, 2020 5 minutes ago, Burnie_man said: Senior clubs wont drop to Amatuer status. I was implying that those leagues would either drop the Amateur status or leave the SAFA. 4 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said: Or you just let amateur clubs apply to the senior or even junior leagues like they've always done. Sorry, I would like to see pyramid the whole way down and disregard any different grades. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairWeatherFan Posted February 16, 2020 Share Posted February 16, 2020 6 minutes ago, ArabAuslander said: I was implying that those leagues would either drop the Amateur status or leave the SAFA. Sorry, I would like to see pyramid the whole way down and disregard any different grades. So there's Junior/Welfare/Amateuer/Saturday/Sunday/Summer/Winter that's a right gordian knot to merge into a unified structure. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Patterson Posted February 16, 2020 Share Posted February 16, 2020 4 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said: So there's Junior/Welfare/Amateuer/Saturday/Sunday/Summer/Winter that's a right gordian knot to merge into a unified structure. Well, I'm just focusing on the Winter Saturday Leagues at the minute, but in the Netherlands (and others) they have the Sunday Amatuer leagues as part of their system. But those three Ams leagues look like they could easily bolt on below the EoS, which itself will have an eventual carrying capacity of probably 64-70 clubs. Obviously there are issues to work out. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marten Posted February 16, 2020 Share Posted February 16, 2020 27 minutes ago, ArabAuslander said: Well, I'm just focusing on the Winter Saturday Leagues at the minute, but in the Netherlands (and others) they have the Sunday Amatuer leagues as part of their system. But those three Ams leagues look like they could easily bolt on below the EoS, which itself will have an eventual carrying capacity of probably 64-70 clubs. Obviously there are issues to work out. I don't think The Netherlands is the perfect example. As opposed to Scotland, Sunday amateur football is of a similar standard as Saturday amateur football and the Saturday/Sunday divide also exists at semi-professional level. Also, there is no promotion/relegation between the full-time & semi-pro divisions (2nd and 3rd tier). Especially Dutch Saturday football is so conservative that it makes the staunchest juniors here in Scotland look progressive. Semi-pro & amateur teams are in the same non-league system though. I do agree with you that EOS & amateurs could eventually link up as long as the strict rules on "amateur status" get changed. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairWeatherFan Posted February 16, 2020 Share Posted February 16, 2020 In the Junior future thread it was brought up that West Calder United might be gearing up for a move to the EoSFL. To which the usually trolling ensued over them being a "big gun". To which I thought, and replied, that all the big guns that could leave have already left the East Region. Which got me thinking if that was actually true since a lot of people are particularly wistful over Whitburn. Going by a Superleague breakdown from 2002 till the mass exodus in 2018, it doesn't really look like there are any big guns left. I know Tayport won a couple of titles relatively early on, but they've since had to win the Premier Division twice more recently. Superleague 2002-2018 Pld W D L GF GA GD Pts 1 Linlithgow Rose 388 216 77 95 775 497 278 728 2 Bonnyrigg Rose Athletic 388 217 64 107 806 512 294 725 3 Bo’ness United 344 170 73 101 640 450 190 579 4 Hill of Beath Hawthorn 365 148 78 139 605 559 46 522 5 Lochee United 336 146 53 137 591 609 -18 487 6 Camelon Juniors 322 121 67 134 512 531 -19 446 7 Kelty Hearts 269 120 57 92 442 352 90 417 8 Carnoustie Panmure 300 94 53 153 442 611 -169 335 9 Tayport 236 91 51 93 339 335 4 314 10 Bathgate Thistle 218 87 51 80 317 331 -14 308 11 Newtongrange Star 192 84 31 77 334 296 38 283 12 Musselburgh Athletic 204 71 40 93 343 374 -31 253 13 Broxburn Athletic 170 68 43 59 319 296 23 247 14 Penicuik Athletic 118 54 25 39 208 177 31 187 15 Glenrothes 154 46 39 69 206 257 -51 174 16 Sauchie Juniors 140 48 29 63 217 258 -41 173 17 Whitburn 110 52 21 37 194 146 48 133 18 Arniston Rangers 88 34 21 33 134 143 -9 123 19 Broughty Athletic 90 35 17 38 143 165 -22 122 20 Oakley United 110 29 19 62 147 235 -88 106 21 Dundonald Bluebell 60 31 7 22 123 103 20 100 22 St Andrews United 102 20 18 64 132 242 -110 78 23 Fauldhouse United 88 20 16 52 115 202 -87 76 24 Forfar West End 74 19 14 41 86 131 -45 66 25 Jeanfield Swifts 60 17 12 31 95 145 -50 63 26 Dundee North End 66 13 16 37 69 119 -50 55 27 Armadale Thistle 58 13 9 36 71 125 -54 48 28 Ballingry Rovers 30 7 6 17 31 67 -36 27 29 Kennoway Star Hearts 30 5 6 19 42 89 -47 21 30 Thornton Hibernian 22 4 3 14 34 60 -26 16 31 Kinnoull 22 1 7 14 19 47 -28 10 32 Edinburgh United 22 1 4 17 17 46 -29 7 33 Dundee Violet 22 2 1 19 27 65 -38 7 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsimButtHitsASix Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 How many South of the Tay Junior Clubs remaining in the East Region are better than, say, Burntisland Shipyard? For all the chat about conferences to help clubs find their level so clubs don't get put in an artificially low position in the 8th tier I don't follow that level of the game closely enough to say how many clubs will it be "unfair" on? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongTimeLurker Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 9 hours ago, jc1 said: My own personal opinion is I do wish we went now and hopefully something sorted for next season. No disrespect towards the ersjfa but with more talking of leaving the east juniors (speaking to other managers and its double figures) I cant see how it will work apart from back to joining up with north it's not something I'm wanting to do again personally Latest from the Fauldhouse United manager on the junior subforum. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsimButtHitsASix Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 He was quite open about regretting not moving last season as well. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunfermline Jag Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 3 hours ago, AsimButtHitsASix said: How many South of the Tay Junior Clubs remaining in the East Region are better than, say, Burntisland Shipyard? For all the chat about conferences to help clubs find their level so clubs don't get put in an artificially low position in the 8th tier I don't follow that level of the game closely enough to say how many clubs will it be "unfair" on? Well, on Saturday I watched a friendly between Rosyth - currently top of the East region Juniors South Premier - and St Andrews Utd who are several points ahead of Burntisland. Obviously, you can't read too much into one game, particularly in the atrocious conditions we had on Saturday, but St Andrews won 4-3 in a game Rosyth finiished with 10 men,spurning several good chances in the second half. That said, Conferences at Tier 8 next year with a decent number of promotion places to tier 7 and with a view to splitting into Tiers 8 and 9 the following season seems to me to be the easiest way to let these clubs find their true level quickly. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dev Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 15 minutes ago, Dunfermline Jag said: Well, on Saturday I watched a friendly between Rosyth - currently top of the East region Juniors South Premier - and St Andrews Utd who are several points ahead of Burntisland. Obviously, you can't read too much into one game, particularly in the atrocious conditions we had on Saturday, but St Andrews won 4-3 in a game Rosyth finiished with 10 men,spurning several good chances in the second half. That said, Conferences at Tier 8 next year with a decent number of promotion places to tier 7 and with a view to splitting into Tiers 8 and 9 the following season seems to me to be the easiest way to let these clubs find their true level quickly. I hope that the EoS is willing to be open about what the clubs may have decided about next season's structure as soon as practically possible, and before the deadline for applications i.e. 31st March. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skipper Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 13 hours ago, FairWeatherFan said: In the Junior future thread it was brought up that West Calder United might be gearing up for a move to the EoSFL. To which the usually trolling ensued over them being a "big gun". To which I thought, and replied, that all the big guns that could leave have already left the East Region. Which got me thinking if that was actually true since a lot of people are particularly wistful over Whitburn. Going by a Superleague breakdown from 2002 till the mass exodus in 2018, it doesn't really look like there are any big guns left. I know Tayport won a couple of titles relatively early on, but they've since had to win the Premier Division twice more recently. Superleague 2002-2018 Pld W D L GF GA GD Pts 1 Linlithgow Rose 388 216 77 95 775 497 278 728 2 Bonnyrigg Rose Athletic 388 217 64 107 806 512 294 725 3 Bo’ness United 344 170 73 101 640 450 190 579 4 Hill of Beath Hawthorn 365 148 78 139 605 559 46 522 5 Lochee United 336 146 53 137 591 609 -18 487 6 Camelon Juniors 322 121 67 134 512 531 -19 446 7 Kelty Hearts 269 120 57 92 442 352 90 417 8 Carnoustie Panmure 300 94 53 153 442 611 -169 335 9 Tayport 236 91 51 93 339 335 4 314 10 Bathgate Thistle 218 87 51 80 317 331 -14 308 11 Newtongrange Star 192 84 31 77 334 296 38 283 12 Musselburgh Athletic 204 71 40 93 343 374 -31 253 13 Broxburn Athletic 170 68 43 59 319 296 23 247 14 Penicuik Athletic 118 54 25 39 208 177 31 187 15 Glenrothes 154 46 39 69 206 257 -51 174 16 Sauchie Juniors 140 48 29 63 217 258 -41 173 17 Whitburn 110 52 21 37 194 146 48 133 18 Arniston Rangers 88 34 21 33 134 143 -9 123 19 Broughty Athletic 90 35 17 38 143 165 -22 122 20 Oakley United 110 29 19 62 147 235 -88 106 21 Dundonald Bluebell 60 31 7 22 123 103 20 100 22 St Andrews United 102 20 18 64 132 242 -110 78 23 Fauldhouse United 88 20 16 52 115 202 -87 76 24 Forfar West End 74 19 14 41 86 131 -45 66 25 Jeanfield Swifts 60 17 12 31 95 145 -50 63 26 Dundee North End 66 13 16 37 69 119 -50 55 27 Armadale Thistle 58 13 9 36 71 125 -54 48 28 Ballingry Rovers 30 7 6 17 31 67 -36 27 29 Kennoway Star Hearts 30 5 6 19 42 89 -47 21 30 Thornton Hibernian 22 4 3 14 34 60 -26 16 31 Kinnoull 22 1 7 14 19 47 -28 10 32 Edinburgh United 22 1 4 17 17 46 -29 7 33 Dundee Violet 22 2 1 19 27 65 -38 7 Good table that, proving conclusively who the Big Rose are. But regarding Whitburn, it was really the 90s when they were the real big gun and our closest rivals. Saw crowds of over 2000 when we played each other then. Their refusal to join the initial Superleague was their undoing, and as the table above shows, they are a long way from being a 'big gun' now. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairWeatherFan Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 1 hour ago, Dev said: I hope that the EoS is willing to be open about what the clubs may have decided about next season's structure as soon as practically possible, and before the deadline for applications i.e. 31st March. They're going to have to be by default. If the 2nd Division option wins out they're going to have to set a minimum target that guarantees 1st division football. Just like last year's top 5 was guaranteed. They can work on the caveats later. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GNU_Linux Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 Ahem we all know the big rose is Auchterader Primrose 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairWeatherFan Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 So the discussion over Linlithgow topping the table on just 3 points made me notice that the wins, draws and losses would give a greater margin than that. I just took the stats from an excel spreadsheet from when the Scottish Football Historical Archive was active and the more recent tables from nonleague matters. The only noted issue that effected the table I noticed was Kelty v. HoB that was expunged which is why they have an odd number of games. Thornton Hibs were credited with an extra point in 2004-05. Everything else seems to stem from 2008-09. With everyone except HoB getting some sort of point adjustment up or down. What happened in the East Region Super League 2008-09? EDIT: I've amended the table because since the change to pasting items to the forum I noticed Ballingry Rovers was completely black. It never registered the automatic font. I've also amended Whitburn as I noticed a human error when adding up their stats. Superleague 2002-2018 Pld W D L GF GA GD Pts 1 Linlithgow Rose 388 216 77 95 775 497 278 728 2 Bonnyrigg Rose Athletic 388 217 64 107 806 512 294 725 3 Bo’ness United 344 170 73 101 640 450 190 579 4 Hill of Beath Hawthorn 365 148 78 139 605 559 46 522 5 Lochee United 336 146 53 137 591 609 -18 487 6 Camelon Juniors 322 121 67 134 512 531 -19 446 7 Kelty Hearts 269 120 57 92 442 352 90 417 8 Carnoustie Panmure 300 94 53 153 442 611 -169 335 9 Tayport 236 91 51 93 339 335 4 314 10 Bathgate Thistle 218 87 51 80 317 331 -14 308 11 Newtongrange Star 192 84 31 77 334 296 38 283 12 Musselburgh Athletic 204 71 40 93 343 374 -31 253 13 Broxburn Athletic 170 68 43 59 319 296 23 247 14 Penicuik Athletic 118 54 25 39 208 177 31 187 15 Whitburn 110 52 21 37 194 146 48 181 16 Glenrothes 154 46 39 69 206 257 -51 174 17 Sauchie Juniors 140 48 29 63 217 258 -41 173 18 Arniston Rangers 88 34 21 33 134 143 -9 123 19 Broughty Athletic 90 35 17 38 143 165 -22 122 20 Oakley United 110 29 19 62 147 235 -88 106 21 Dundonald Bluebell 60 31 7 22 123 103 20 100 22 St Andrews United 102 20 18 64 132 242 -110 78 23 Fauldhouse United 88 20 16 52 115 202 -87 76 24 Forfar West End 74 19 14 41 86 131 -45 66 25 Jeanfield Swifts 60 17 12 31 95 145 -50 63 26 Dundee North End 66 13 16 37 69 119 -50 55 27 Armadale Thistle 58 13 9 36 71 125 -54 48 28 Ballingry Rovers 30 7 6 17 31 67 -36 27 29 Kennoway Star Hearts 30 5 6 19 42 89 -47 21 30 Thornton Hibernian 22 4 3 14 34 60 -26 16 31 Kinnoull 22 1 7 14 19 47 -28 10 32 Edinburgh United 22 1 4 17 17 46 -29 7 33 Dundee Violet 22 2 1 19 27 65 -38 7 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranaldo Bairn Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 Sadly my local side the Primrose have gone into abeyance for this season.Hopefully bounce back stronger next year.Ahem we all know the big rose is Auchterader Primrose 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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