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The secretary of state for Scotland.


SandyCromarty

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3 minutes ago, MixuFixit said:

If the difference was just a case of for example trains being privatised or not, more or less regulation, certain different foreign policy objectives then sure. But it isn't. It is as Lancaster University recently termed it social murder.

https://www.lancaster.ac.uk/news/austerity-results-in-social-murder-according-to-new-research

Supporting the tories has caused in excess of 120000 completely avoidable deaths among our citizens least able to defend themselves from it. Citizens the government is supposed to represent and protect.

Suggesting that people who vote for that bear some responsibility and thus cannot be considered good people is not Trumpian it is judging them on foundation level morality.

But pretty much any of the major parties would have imposed some form of austerity in recent years. Perhaps resulting in slightly fewer deaths, but still deaths. Would voting for anyone therefore have been immoral?

We also know that rising unemployment at any time results in death. So, do people who voted for a government that then overseas a rise in unemployment have blood on their hands? Of course not.

The Tories are not governing the country well. But the ultimate blame for what they have been allowed to get away with lies with the media and opposition who are both utterly failing to hold the government to account.

Insisting that anyone who votes Tory is a bad person is simply silly and, as I mentioned before, serves to do nothing other than undermine the democratic process. You can argue against austerity, you can argue against voting Tory, you can argue for alternatives. But as soon as you start from the view that Tory voters are bad people, you have nowhere to go and no chance of changing any minds.

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If the difference was just a case of for example trains being privatised or not, more or less regulation, certain different foreign policy objectives then sure. But it isn't. It is as Lancaster University recently termed it social murder.

https://www.lancaster.ac.uk/news/austerity-results-in-social-murder-according-to-new-research

Supporting the tories has caused in excess of 120000 completely avoidable deaths among our citizens least able to defend themselves from it. Citizens the government is supposed to represent and protect.

Suggesting that people who vote for that bear some responsibility and thus cannot be considered good people is not Trumpian it is judging them on foundation level morality.


How many of their voters even know about that? For many it’s as simple as ticking a box they’ve always ticked or ‘not trusting that Corbyn guy’.

I don’t disagree as such but, shock horror, writing off half the country as murderers doesn’t tend to help win them round.
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4 hours ago, Paco said:

 


How many of their voters even know about that? For many it’s as simple as ticking a box they’ve always ticked or ‘not trusting that Corbyn guy’.

I don’t disagree as such but, shock horror, writing off half the country as murderers doesn’t tend to help win them round.

 

Sadly your first sentence is spot on.  This forum is a microcosm; of all the people on P&B how many post on here regularly?  How many even occasionally?

Most folk, even the ones who vote regularly, take little or no interest in politics.  It effects most aspects of people’s lives but they are simply disinterested.

 

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Mundell never claimed to resign last night, anything suggesting he did is misreporting. He defied a three-line whip, along with three other Cabinet ministers, and is effectively daring the PM to sack him.

The PM has lost all authority, and Mundell is taking advantage of that to protect himself with his votes.

I suspect there’ll be outright fury in Downing Street, as the amended motion wouldn’t have carried if the four ministers had voted as they were told. But it seems both sides are happy to hide behind miscommunication from the whips.

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