Seatonsands Posted January 5, 2019 Share Posted January 5, 2019 On 22/12/2018 at 10:32, Gary Hamilton said: That’s because there’s on league set up in your region This is true. But I still don’t believe amateur football is on the way out? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 Absolutely. There would be a long way to go for Saturday amateur football to be on the way out. It still has approaching 600 sides. By the same token - if (say) 560 clubs make it to the start line for next season then 1 in 3 teams will have gone in 6yrs. Which is alarming. Perhaps the rate of decline will reduce this year. Starting from 2013-14 the losses each season have been 18, 63, 44, 61 and 39 so it hasn't really been improving. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stanley Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 (edited) On 11/12/2018 at 23:23, HibeeJibee said: Very interesting thread. Obviously the big issue is fewer young men wanting to play; but points over U21s, pro-youth, regulations, expense and competition in Strathclyde also valid. Here are some stats: Saturday ’13 ’14 ’15 ’16 ’17 ‘18 leagues -14 -15 -16 -17 -18 -19 Aberdeenshire 85 83 81 82 77 71 Ayrshire 57 55 53 49 45 44 Border 31 31 30 30 33 33 Caledonian 26 30 33 33 34 32 Central 33 33 33 29 32 36 Dumfries 7 X Fife 29 30 27 30 37 35 Greater Glas. 49 40 38 35 34 34 Kingdom Cale. 14 12 12 11 X Lothian 73 68 60 57 56 58 Midlands 53 53 43 41 25 25 Lanarkshire 20 22 19 14 X Paisley 28 28 22 17 12 X Perthshire 29 27 27 29 26 26 Scottish 52 54 42 38 37 34 Stirling 45 49 43 39 35 26 West 20 16 12 7 X (Morn) Dundee 34 37 30 34 34 34 (Morn) Glasg. 31 32 27 23 19 19 (Morn) G.Col. 32 32 32 30 29 29 (Morn) Strat. 42 38 38 41 55 47 (Church) East 8 10 19 10 X (Church) Str. 40 40 36 34 32 30 838 820 757 713 652 613 down 225 (27%) Sunday ’13 ’14 ’15 ’16 ’17 leagues -14 -15 -16 -17 -18 Aberdeen 16 17 15 14 15 Airdrie-Coatb. 21 24 20 31 33 Carluke 19 18 14 X Dumfries 18 20 20 18 18 Dundee 18 19 12 7 8 Edinburgh 21 15 19 X Fife 31 32 28 26 26 Forfar 10 11 X Lothian 37 32 30 38 47 North Ayrshire 10 X Perthshire 12 10 X Stranraer 7 7 6 X Sunday Central 48 51 47 54 55 West Lothian 25 32 25 19 22 West Ayrshire 15 17 18 11 14 Forth Valley X 10 308 305 254 218 248 down 60 (20%) after peaking down 90 (30%) Any reason why the Midlands league has had such a massive drop? Seems bigger than all the rest. Only 20 teams this season and down from 53 a few seasons ago. Edited January 11, 2019 by stanley 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 1 hour ago, stanley said: Any reason why the Midlands league has had such a massive drop? Seems bigger than all the rest. Only 20 teams this season and down from 53 a few seasons ago. It appears the numbers for the last 2 seasons should actually be 39 and 30, which are still not great (down 44%), but not as low as 25 and 20. They have an "Alliance" set-up below the Premier, First and (now defunct) Second divisions which appears to alter format every season. Sometimes it's been 2 regular divisions... sometimes a single big division where teams play once then split into top and bottom halves and play once again (or twice in the bottom split one year)... sometimes a single big division where teams play half their opponents once and half twice unless that's just a different way of showing the split arrangement. There are only 10 "Alliance" teams left this season so presumably just 1 regular division - there are 12 in Premier plus 8 in First divisions. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stanley Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 It seems like the Alliance is made up of some of the teams in the premier and first? I don't have any knowledge of the league but, from looking at the tables, not sure there any different teams in the Alliance except maybe reserves. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
committeemember Posted January 12, 2019 Share Posted January 12, 2019 Where are all the youth/ young players going ........... girlfriends, drink, maybe they have other interests? Nae where as many young boys wanting to play fitba as there was. Who can we blame.............. US. NAE BODY ELSE. We as a collective group have let other distractions take over from Fitba. Loads of young teams from 5/6 yrs old till 16ish but then it stops when they then discover some other things that excites them. Can we not keep them in the fitba roundabout as well as keep their Hormones in check as well. They did it with us. No matter where you live, Aberdeen, Dundee, Edinburgh or Glasgow ( young teams in the area ). How many will continue in to the ammy game or further and if you look at teams that do well that are out of the main catchment area ( Oban for example ) how do they compete on regular basis or even survive with the distractions around them. Having watched some youth games I am not totally surprised that some young players have given up playng football due to TV interference which they have allowed to carry on to the park and they then feel like invicible Aye modern technology has brightened our day and given us umpteen displays of how to perfect a dive to get a penalty or how to whimper like a wee bairn when an opponent actually TOUCHES YOU when he tackles you. Embarrassing when watching even youth fitba and you see this happening. Just as bad when you hear them talking to the ref like he is a piece of shit. Not ALL young players, just some but enough is enough. Football is a contact sport that should be played with only trying to beat your opponent with skill and determination and forget the cheating. Well that was a waste of 40 mins writings this, hopefully you got a good nights sleep. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted January 12, 2019 Share Posted January 12, 2019 19 hours ago, stanley said: It seems like the Alliance is made up of some of the teams in the premier and first? I don't have any knowledge of the league but, from looking at the tables, not sure there any different teams in the Alliance except maybe reserves. Looks like they're reserve teams. Today there were 6 Premier games (full complement), 3 First Division (from possible 4), 4 Alliance (from possible 5), but also 2 cup-ties. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redondo Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 Just to stir this thread back up with some positivity...... Some absolute cracking cup ties on this wkd. The amateur game has its struggles but ill bet there will be a few decent crowds at a few of the bigger ties in both national cup this Sat. Best of luck to all involved!!! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Hamilton Posted September 13, 2019 Author Share Posted September 13, 2019 After seeing the draw for the second round of the Scottish Cup today, it appears that my thoughts are correct. There was only 256 teams in the draw for round 2 today. It used to be 10 rounds to the semi finals now it’s 7, it won’t take people long to work out how many teams used to take part in the competition 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redondo Posted September 13, 2019 Share Posted September 13, 2019 1 hour ago, Gary Hamilton said: After seeing the draw for the second round of the Scottish Cup today, it appears that my thoughts are correct. There was only 256 teams in the draw for round 2 today. It used to be 10 rounds to the semi finals now it’s 7, it won’t take people long to work out how many teams used to take part in the competition Its a fact that the ammie game is in decline m8, theres no doubt about it. Any ideas or solutions to improve or re-energise it??? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeswideopen15 Posted September 13, 2019 Share Posted September 13, 2019 All grass roots football is dying. The problem is starting at lower level senior teams. They are struggling so taking mid level junior players. The junior clubs are replacing them with amatuer players who cant find enough youths to replace them with coz pro youth has sucked the life out of unsuccessful boys. As kris boyd says. Worrying times ahead After seeing the draw for the second round of the Scottish Cup today, it appears that my thoughts are correct. There was only 256 teams in the draw for round 2 today. It used to be 10 rounds to the semi finals now it’s 7, it won’t take people long to work out how many teams used to take part in the competition 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spyro Posted September 13, 2019 Share Posted September 13, 2019 The reason amateur football is dying is that a lot of people have to work silly shift patterns or 4 on- 4 off to survive. Big companies take the pure piss by making people work varying hours over 6 days a week to make any sort of liveable wage so no one is able to commit to playing for a team as it doesn’t match their shifts and it’s not like many folk (especially younger people) have any option just to go and find another job... THAT is the main reason amateur football is dying in the UK 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auld yin wae knowledge Posted September 13, 2019 Share Posted September 13, 2019 On 11/12/2018 at 23:23, HibeeJibee said: Very interesting thread. Obviously the big issue is fewer young men wanting to play; but points over U21s, pro-youth, regulations, expense and competition in Strathclyde also valid. Here are some stats: Saturday ’13 ’14 ’15 ’16 ’17 ‘18 leagues -14 -15 -16 -17 -18 -19 Aberdeenshire 85 83 81 82 77 71 Ayrshire 57 55 53 49 45 44 Border 31 31 30 30 33 33 Caledonian 26 30 33 33 34 32 Central 33 33 33 29 32 36 Dumfries 7 X Fife 29 30 27 30 37 35 Greater Glas. 49 40 38 35 34 34 Kingdom Cale. 14 12 12 11 X Lothian 73 68 60 57 56 58 Midlands 53 53 43 41 25 25 Lanarkshire 20 22 19 14 X Paisley 28 28 22 17 12 X Perthshire 29 27 27 29 26 26 Scottish 52 54 42 38 37 34 Stirling 45 49 43 39 35 26 West 20 16 12 7 X (Morn) Dundee 34 37 30 34 34 34 (Morn) Glasg. 31 32 27 23 19 19 (Morn) G.Col. 32 32 32 30 29 29 (Morn) Strat. 42 38 38 41 55 47 (Church) East 8 10 19 10 X (Church) Str. 40 40 36 34 32 30 838 820 757 713 652 613 down 225 (27%) Sunday ’13 ’14 ’15 ’16 ’17 leagues -14 -15 -16 -17 -18 Aberdeen 16 17 15 14 15 Airdrie-Coatb. 21 24 20 31 33 Carluke 19 18 14 X Dumfries 18 20 20 18 18 Dundee 18 19 12 7 8 Edinburgh 21 15 19 X Fife 31 32 28 26 26 Forfar 10 11 X Lothian 37 32 30 38 47 North Ayrshire 10 X Perthshire 12 10 X Stranraer 7 7 6 X Sunday Central 48 51 47 54 55 West Lothian 25 32 25 19 22 West Ayrshire 15 17 18 11 14 Forth Valley X 10 308 305 254 218 248 down 60 (20%) after peaking down 90 (30%) Would be interesting to see how this Looks This year I know the SAFL are down to 29 Clubs a drop of 5 from last year [ but only 2 folded ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gussy Posted September 13, 2019 Share Posted September 13, 2019 This is one of the best threads I have read it’s great to read that so many people still love the game t would be great if the associations took some of this on board keep it going lads great reading 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redondo Posted September 13, 2019 Share Posted September 13, 2019 What age do we feel we are losing players to the game, 17-20?? At 17 if ur released from a Club is that the end? No chance, there are players who are getting released for whatever reason then falling out with the game. If amateur teams are really struggling why are they no going out and trying to get these lads 17-20, get them in and coach them. Short term it will give u numbers to work with atleast and you will probably find that you will have some technically very good players. In Scotland nowadays young players should never give up, theres still great opportunities to make it in the game so imo the amateur game should look toward younger players, the benefits for both players & Clubs could be huge. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dumbarton82 Posted September 13, 2019 Share Posted September 13, 2019 The change in people's working hours has definitely been the main factor in the reduction in players/teams playing amateur football. There is not many people working the traditional 9-5 Monday to Friday now...shift work and also the need to work away from home during the week means it's difficult for guys to commit to training and games every week. Also with many guys partners also working shifts it adds another difficulty especially if you have kids. The Pro Youth setup is also not helping and I see no benefit whatsoever to this. From a young age you are seeing kids being snapped up by pro teams to effectively make up the numbers for there youth teams as they are nowhere near good enough to have a full time career in the game. When they are eventually discarded at 16/17 they end up scunnered with football altogether and it's difficult to get them back into the game. The enjoyment of playing football is taken away from these kids at a young age and once that's away it will be difficult to get it back. All levels of the game are suffering due to the pro youth setup and can only see that continuing until a change is brought in. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted September 14, 2019 Share Posted September 14, 2019 (edited) 15 hours ago, auld yin wae knowledge said: Would be interesting to see how this Looks This year I know the SAFL are down to 29 Clubs a drop of 5 from last year [ but only 2 folded ] My measure is slightly inaccurate as I should be correcting 2018-19's figure to one tabulated from the Scottish Football Almanac - that aside I've totalled this season's figures from league websites... the result is 598 clubs (down 240 on 2013-14). Unless I've missed something, there seems to have been big growth of Saturday morning football in Glasgow (up 12 teams)... Otherwise most are down, some heavily, except Midlands up 5 and Greater Glasgow up 4 on last season. Saturday ’13 ’14 ’15 ’16 ’17 ‘18 '19 leagues -14 -15 -16 -17 -18 -19 -20 Aberdeenshire 85 83 81 82 77 71 66 Ayrshire 57 55 53 49 45 44 43 Border 31 31 30 30 33 33 32 Caledonian 26 30 33 33 34 32 29 Central 33 33 33 29 32 36 29 Dumfries 7 X Fife 29 30 27 30 37 35 32 ? Greater Glas. 49 40 38 35 34 34 38 Kingdom Cale. 14 12 12 11 X Lothian 73 68 60 57 56 58 50 Midlands 53 53 43 41 25 25 30 Lanarkshire 20 22 19 14 X Paisley 28 28 22 17 12 X Perthshire 29 27 27 29 26 26 26 Scottish 52 54 42 38 37 34 29 Stirling 45 49 43 39 35 26 21 West 20 16 12 7 X (Morn) Dundee 34 37 30 34 34 34 35 ? (Morn) Glasg. 31 32 27 23 19 19 28 (Morn) G.Col. 32 32 32 30 29 29 30 (Morn) Strat. 42 38 38 41 55 47 49 (Church) East 8 10 19 10 X (Church) Str. 40 40 36 34 32 30 31 838 820 757 713 652 613 598 down 240 (29%) Edited September 14, 2019 by HibeeJibee 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted September 14, 2019 Share Posted September 14, 2019 Interestingly that averages at a loss of 40 clubs per season (though it's varied between 15 and 63). At a continued rate you'd drop below 500 clubs in 2022-23... 400 in 2024-25... and 300 in 2027-28. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Hamilton Posted September 14, 2019 Author Share Posted September 14, 2019 So how do we fix it, I’ve defected to the juniors now. I’d be keen to be involved in some form of restructuring working group 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bestsinceslicebread Posted September 14, 2019 Share Posted September 14, 2019 Football teams are in decline, youth football and amateur football. There are so many reasons, youths as they get older have other interests, drink, girls, playstations xbox, online, nightlife etc.. There will always be amateur football, that's for sure but it will eventually reach certain level because of the environment that we live in. 30 odd years ago we had tons of youth teams and tons and tons of amateurs as nearly everyone played football. You'll see problems on the youth sections of their forum and by a certain extent the same for amateurs. Even the price of parks, the referee can take its toll. Astro parks costing £100 then referee about £30-40, that's £130 odd for a game of football. Add to that there is less parks with all the new housing estates being built. Some amateur teams are connected with the junior teams as in training beside them and some could be closer but it is hard. As long as each league are organised well and are looking to improve and ideas to keep amateur football interesting then it will add to a continued amateur football experience in Scotland. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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