INDEPENDENT GROUP

[AUFC90]

Does Turkey have freedom of movement?

Does turkey have a full customs union like the one that EU members have between themselves ?

And if the UK wants to be part of the single market it will most certainly have to accept freedom of movement.

[Detournement]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union–Turkey_Customs_Union

[AUFC90]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union–Turkey_Customs_Union

Wiki [emoji23]. I'll answer my own question then. No, Turkey does not have the same full customs unions that EU members have with each other.

[Detournement]

It has free movement for goods which is what most people care about.

[AUFC90]

It has free movement for goods which is what most people care about.

So it doesn't have a full customs union. Thanks.

[Detournement]

What do you think a full customs union includes?

[AUFC90]

Everything else that Turkeys doesn't include. You were the one trying to be a smartarse. Why don't you list all the products that aren't part of the customs union not even counting services.

 

 

[Fullerene]

45 minutes ago, MixuFixit said:

Dead cat well and truly bounced. I wonder what that 6% of the electorate are going to do when they realise there isn't an IG candidate to vote for

 

Again this reflects my view that when people are asked how they would vote, they will answer as if the next question is why.

That TIG are against Brexit and for second referendum is a good thing.  However apart from that it is difficult to define what they represent apart from generalities - "Something new, something different - oh great that's what I want."

Anna Soubry talking about having no problem with austerity would have put off a lot of potential voters from the left.

I think their best chance of success is if a lot of MPs defect to TIG and I mean a lot.
Corbyn and May are frighten of splitting their parties but that position would be seriously weakened if dozens left.

[John Lambies Doos]

11 minters

[Savage Henry]

1 hour ago, Fullerene said:

Again this reflects my view that when people are asked how they would vote, they will answer as if the next question is why.

That TIG are against Brexit and for second referendum is a good thing.  However apart from that it is difficult to define what they represent apart from generalities - "Something new, something different - oh great that's what I want."

Anna Soubry talking about having no problem with austerity would have put off a lot of potential voters from the left.

I think their best chance of success is if a lot of MPs defect to TIG and I mean a lot.
Corbyn and May are frighten of splitting their parties but that position would be seriously weakened if dozens left.

There are plenty of Labour (and indeed Tory) MPs who are against a hard brexit, and by extension for a second referendum.  The mechanism to that end already exists without creating this nebulous group which doesn't actually represent anything or anyone.

It seemed like egotism over logic at the time, and it still does.  There's surely some game plan for the weeks ahead, but I'll be darned if I can see what it is.

The issue is that the Labour party is potentially going to be ripped asunder by Brexit, whereas the Conservatives have always had a schism over Europe and can probably survive it.  To that end, the Tory rebels seem to have less of a case than the Labour counterparts.

[DeeTillEhDeh]

This'll probably bite me on the arse but I think if more were going to split away, they'd have done it by now. I think these guys are just like Carswell and Reckless and will be swatted aside at the next GE.

I think some are waiting to see what happens on Brexit - if there is No Deal or a Hard Brexit then I think others will follow.

[DeeTillEhDeh]

There are plenty of Labour (and indeed Tory) MPs who are against a hard brexit, and by extension for a second referendum.  The mechanism to that end already exists without creating this nebulous group which doesn't actually represent anything or anyone.
It seemed like egotism over logic at the time, and it still does.  There's surely some game plan for the weeks ahead, but I'll be darned if I can see what it is.
The issue is that the Labour party is potentially going to be ripped asunder by Brexit, whereas the Conservatives have always had a schism over Europe and can probably survive it.  To that end, the Tory rebels seem to have less of a case than the Labour counterparts.

Tribal party lines seem to be preventing any moves against Hard Brexit (and a second referendum).

There's also a significant number who seem to be stopping any moves that are seen to reduce the power of the Executive - that's the real problem.

Whilst the Executive has almost full control of the Brexit agenda there is very little MPs can do unless they vote to effectively reduce the power of the Executive on Brexit. Some MPs are just not willing to do that because they believe it sets a dangerous precedent.

[topcat(The most tip top)]

The middle ground means the cash points still work and we don't get concentration camps. 

That’s a pretty convincing sales pitch

[topcat(The most tip top)]

That was bad, but he lost a few when he pretended to like Arctic Monkeys to some students. I blame his advisors. He'd have had far more respect if he'd said they were shite and he still listened to his old Jethro Tull albums.

Whereas Corbyn is living in the past and Diane Abbot is Thick as a brick

[ICTJohnboy]

18 minutes ago, topcat(The most tip top) said:

 

Whereas Corbyn is living in the past and Diane Abbot is Thick as a brick

 

 

Not everyone will get that, TC....

I still listen to my old Jethro Tull albums - should I I be worried about this?

[topcat(The most tip top)]

 
Not everyone will get that, TC....
I still listen to my old Jethro Tull albums - should I I be worried about this?

expressing enthusiasm for a flute band on P&B carries a certain risks of misinterpretation

[Miguel Sanchez]

On 22/02/2019 at 19:51, kirkyblue2 said:

He’s trying to find a solution to this mess. If you think he’s fannying about then fair enough.

Dear oh dear.

[Fullerene]

2 hours ago, MixuFixit said:

This'll probably bite me on the arse but I think if more were going to split away, they'd have done it by now. I think these guys are just like Carswell and Reckless and will be swatted aside at the next GE.

Some papers have said that the SDP didn't fail because the Labour Party morphed into New Labour and did a lot of the things that the SDP was asking for.

Reckless and Carswell would say the same about their effort - that the Tory party is now doing the things that they had turned to UKIP to do.

I suspect most of the TIG MPs could lose their seats at a general election based on previous experience but if Brexit turns out to be the disaster they think it will be - then they become the "told you so" party and that might change things.

[btb]

How soon could a By-Election be called, I reckon that even if a coupla them (1 ex-Lab, 1 ex-Con) did resign to fight on a People's Vote platform the two major parties would attempt to delay them although it would be harder for Labour as they've called for this but I'm sure May would just repeat the "Don't want No Deal, Vote for my Deal" mantra.

[BawWatchin]

19 minutes ago, Fullerene said:

I suspect most of the TIG MPs could lose their seats at a general election based on previous experience but if Brexit turns out to be the disaster they think it will be - then they become the "told you so" party and that might change things.

Becoming the "told you so" party won't do them any favours. Nobody likes to be told "I told you so".