The AEW Thread

[DukDukGoose]

2 minutes ago, TheGoon said:

The WWF literally had The Rock, Stone Cold, Foley, Triple H, Angle & Undertaker in their main event scene, and a ridiculous supporting cast. Difference being? They (mostly) used them correctly and made an exciting product that utilised all of them. 

There was not a time they had all of that talent available (and in the main event) at the same time. That's also less than half the guys I'd say AEW could use as proper main eventers.

Edit: And it was only a couple of years after Angles debut where they fucked it taking on even more talent from WCW!

Edited September 6, 2021 by Merkland Red

[TheGoon]

3 minutes ago, Merkland Red said:

There was not a time they had all of that talent available (and in the main event) at the same time.

That’s kind of my point though. Foley, Stone Cold & Taker obviously missed time, but when on TV they could be cycled out into feuds that didn’t involve the world title and be fine for it - because everyone was over. Austin/Rikishi for example, or Taker & Kane vs Rikishi etc.

[Jacky1990]

3 minutes ago, Merkland Red said:

If guys are jumping back across it's because they've either been offered a better deal or they haven't been used properly. There's only so much room at the top of the card. Eventually people get sick of not being able to break in to that spot. There's only so much you can give guys to do before they're essentially devalued.

I think the big difference with AEW will (hopefully) be that they have opened avenues to various different promotions across the world like Impact and NJPW. Obviously not everyone can be at the top but I think theyve already shown they are happy to rotate things so its not just the same guys taking top spot all the time.

But guys like Danielson, Moxley, Omega plus the likes of Young Bucks, Punk and Adam Cole even have massive scope to go to these different promotions when they arent centre stage in AEW storylines, much like Mox is now. Even some of the younger guys like MJF and Darby will have other promotions lining up for runs in their company for some extra exposure. Being aligned with AEW has been massive for Impact viewership for example. A lot of these guys genuinely love wrestling and the art being the stories they can create so I dont thing going to these other promotions will be seen as some sort of relegation, more just the opportunity to tell an exciting story.

Totally take the point that there is a tipping point in terms of the amount of talent you can conceivably keep happy, but I think the forbidden door being booted open should limit a large part of that.

[FairWeatherFan]

8 minutes ago, Merkland Red said:

If guys are jumping back across it's because they've either been offered a better deal or they haven't been used properly. There's only so much room at the top of the card. Eventually people get sick of not being able to break in to that spot. There's only so much you can give guys to do before they're essentially devalued.

Still not a problem enough for them to fold, or be that big a negative.

Wrestlers move from promotions all the time. None of these people have to be WWE or AEW for life.

[DukDukGoose]

5 minutes ago, TheGoon said:

That’s kind of my point though. Foley, Stone Cold & Taker obviously missed time, but when on TV they could be cycled out into feuds that didn’t involve the world title and be fine for it - because everyone was over. Austin/Rikishi for example, or Taker & Kane vs Rikishi etc.

Yeah that is true but there was always a core 6 or so. That's my point. There's about 13 there in AEW (with more to potentially come) and 4 of their big stars at EVP's.

It's the main reason I think it would have been better for Cole to stay in WWE. I genuinely think he had the chance to main event a future Wrestlemania. Instead he debuts and goes straight in to the Elite. Bleh.

3 minutes ago, Jacky1990 said:

I think the big difference with AEW will (hopefully) be that they have opened avenues to various different promotions across the world like Impact and NJPW. Obviously not everyone can be at the top but I think theyve already shown they are happy to rotate things so its not just the same guys taking top spot all the time.

But guys like Danielson, Moxley, Omega plus the likes of Young Bucks, Punk and Adam Cole even have massive scope to go to these different promotions when they arent centre stage in AEW storylines, much like Mox is now. Even some of the younger guys like MJF and Darby will have other promotions lining up for runs in their company for some extra exposure. Being aligned with AEW has been massive for Impact viewership for example. A lot of these guys genuinely love wrestling and the art being the stories they can create so I dont thing going to these other promotions will be seen as some sort of relegation, more just the opportunity to tell an exciting story.

Totally take the point that there is a tipping point in terms of the amount of talent you can conceivably keep happy, but I think the forbidden door being booted open should limit a large part of that.

Good post. Not much to argue with here. It's getting the timing of that along with keeping your own fanbase happy as they branch into more live events etc.

The other problems you have is when guys like Darby and MJF try to break the glass ceiling. Or guys who are working elsewhere having AEW dictate how they are presented (which they should be doing) tbh.

1 minute ago, FairWeatherFan said:

Still not a problem enough for them to fold, or be that big a negative.

Wrestlers move from promotions all the time. None of these people have to be WWE or AEW for life.

I've no idea what you're even going on about. I've never suggested they'll fold. I've never suggested people have to be WWE or AEW for life. I've suggested it's a problem trying to keep a large amount of people happy. Especially when ego, money and any future earnings are concerned.

[TheGoon]

I’d say it was far more likely Adam Cole went to the main roster and feuded with Baron Corbin though, or was just a Reigns programme for a couple of months after. I’d say he (wrongly) has much more of a celling there. 

[DukDukGoose]

5 minutes ago, TheGoon said:

I’d say it was far more likely Adam Cole went to the main roster and feuded with Baron Corbin though, or was just a Reigns programme for a couple of months after. I’d say he (wrongly) has much more of a celling there. 

We'll see how it plays out. Worth considering that people didn't think AJ had a chance in WWE and Vince pushed him to the moon for a good while there.

[FairWeatherFan]

Just now, Merkland Red said:

I've no idea what you're even going on about. I've never suggested they'll fold. I've never suggested people have to be WWE or AEW for life. I've suggested it's a problem trying to keep a large amount of people happy. Especially when ego, money and any future earnings are concerned.

You equated having a stacked roster and it being mismanaged as a factor in WCW folding.

And happiness isn't a problem as people can just move on elsewhere. They aren't out on the road 300 days a year anymore. The "main event" spot isn't the same as it once was in the 90s.

Money and future earnings are more tied to your personal social media and PWT than it is in having the company backing you.

[DukDukGoose]

1 minute ago, FairWeatherFan said:

You equated having a stacked roster and it being mismanaged as a factor in WCW folding.

And happiness isn't a problem as people can just move on elsewhere. They aren't out on the road 300 days a year anymore. The "main event" spot isn't the same as it once was in the 90s.

Money and future earnings are more tied to your personal social media and PWT than it is in having the company backing you.

WWE also had a stacked roster and despite ruining the product earned their best ever TV deal. What's your point?

They're not out on the road 300 days a year yet. There's obviously going to come a point when they go out on the road for most of the week though. 

[TheGoon]

4 minutes ago, Merkland Red said:

We'll see how it plays out. Worth considering that people didn't think AJ had a chance in WWE and Vince pushed him to the moon for a good while there.

For every AJ there’s a Ricochet, Black, Gulak, Gable etc though, even Bryan was pretty much against their will. I wouldn’t be surprised if he saw what they did with Kross and shat it. 

 

[TheGoon]

2 minutes ago, Merkland Red said:

WWE also had a stacked roster and despite ruining the product earned their best ever TV deal. What's your point?

They're not out on the road 300 days a year yet. There's obviously going to come a point when they go out on the road for most of the week though. 

Eh? No there isn’t. TK has said they’re not interested in house shows, those days are over. WWE have scaled back on them dramatically too.

[DukDukGoose]

1 minute ago, TheGoon said:

Eh? No there isn’t. TK has said they’re not interested in house shows, those days are over. WWE have scaled back on them dramatically too.

Supply and demand.

They obviously scaled back on them due to the pandemic. Then they say they'll not run as much as they did. Then they'll get greedy again. They always do.

 

[TheGoon]

2 minutes ago, Merkland Red said:

Supply and demand.

They obviously scaled back on them due to the pandemic. Then they say they'll not run as much as they did. Then they'll get greedy again. They always do.

 

What demand? They’ve had to merge the rosters on them to sell tickets. 

[DukDukGoose]

14 minutes ago, TheGoon said:

What demand? They’ve had to merge the rosters on them to sell tickets. 

I'm talking about AEW Obviously.

 

Edited September 6, 2021 by Merkland Red

[Mark Connolly]

8 hours ago, Stellaboz said:

Watching the title match now, is it just me or does Kenny Omega scream out as a mid carder, rather than a top guy?

The guy is obviously talented, but I just can't buy into anything he does. This gif

sums up my feelings.

I am happy to admit, though, that I have previous for really not getting the "top guy"'s appeal (Hulk Hogan, Kevin Nash ).

[FairWeatherFan]

19 minutes ago, Merkland Red said:

WWE also had a stacked roster and despite ruining the product earned their best ever TV deal. What's your point?

That a stacked and unhappy roster isn't a problem for the company. As highlighted by your point of a company with a stacked and unhappy roster making bank.

19 minutes ago, Merkland Red said:

They're not out on the road 300 days a year yet. There's obviously going to come a point when they go out on the road for most of the week though. 

Why is it obvious? Dynamite and Rampage when it goes live, that's two a week. They rotate talent so no guarantee everyone would be doing that. International tours/shows would have already happened if it hadn't been for COVID.

What's the cost-benefit analysis of adding the infrastructure (production, merchandise, marketing, talent costs) for domestic house shows though . When you can have talent take outside bookings, and merchandise is online or instore.

[DukDukGoose]

2 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

That a stacked and unhappy roster isn't a problem for the company. As highlighted by your point of a company with a stacked and unhappy roster making bank.

Why is it obvious? Dynamite and Rampage when it goes live, that's two a week. They rotate talent so no guarantee everyone would be doing that. International tours/shows would have already happened if it hadn't been for COVID.

What's the cost-benefit analysis of adding the infrastructure (production, merchandise, marketing, talent costs) for domestic house shows though . When you can have talent take outside bookings, and merchandise is online or instore.

We'll see what happens when one of their talent picks up a nasty injury in someone else's ring I guess.

Like any other business they plan to grow. To grow you need to invest and then receive a profit on your investment. It's a very obvious concept. It might be five years from now. Might be ten but it's obviously going to happen.

TNT will be delighted with the ratings but they'll be saying "let's get to 2 million". Then they'll want 3 million. If they have 2 million regular viewers then a a couple of shows in the area every few months isn't going to cut it.

[TheGoon]

6 minutes ago, Merkland Red said:

We'll see what happens when one of their talent picks up a nasty injury in someone else's ring I guess.

Like any other business they plan to grow. To grow you need to invest and then receive a profit on your investment. It's a very obvious concept. It might be five years from now. Might be ten but it's obviously going to happen.

TNT will be delighted with the ratings but they'll be saying "let's get to 2 million". Then they'll want 3 million. If they have 2 million regular viewers then a a couple of shows in the area every few months isn't going to cut it.

D’you know many other cable shows pulling in over 2M viewers? 

[DukDukGoose]

24 minutes ago, TheGoon said:

D’you know many other cable shows pulling in over 2M viewers? 

Raw has hit that several times this year FFS. USA network is on cable isn't it? Happy to admit I'm wrong there if not.

Bizarre that you don't think TNT are going to hope to get to 2m if they get a sustained bump from Punk and Danielson though.

Edit: https://cultaholic.com/posts/chris-jericho-predicts-aew-will-start-beating-wwe-raw-s-ratings-in-the-next-6-months

Seems Jericho is very confident they'll do it.

Edited September 6, 2021 by Merkland Red

[TheGoon]

20 minutes ago, Merkland Red said:

Raw has hit that several times this year FFS. USA network is on cable isn't it? Happy to admit I'm wrong there if not.

Bizarre that you don't think TNT are going to hope to get to 2m if they get a sustained bump from Punk and Danielson though.

Edit: https://cultaholic.com/posts/chris-jericho-predicts-aew-will-start-beating-wwe-raw-s-ratings-in-the-next-6-months

Seems Jericho is very confident they'll do it.

I said over, and consistently. Which other shows are doing it?