League Cup Group E

[Busta Nut]

Morton fans, Will Handsome John play at FP on Friday?

[Scosha]

2 minutes ago, Busta Nut said:

Morton fans, Will Handsome John play at FP on Friday?

Will probably come off the bench. 

[Busta Nut]

2 minutes ago, Scosha said:

Will probably come off the bench. 

That's what I like to hear.

[DumbartonTheSons]

I can’t make it tonight but I’ll be content if I can come on here to read that we’ve not been shambolic or been given a hiding and that there’s positives to take into the league campaign at our level.

Not expecting much from tonight or the group in general. Hopefully it gives Duffy a better idea of how the team works etc.

[Al B]

2 hours ago, 19QOS19 said:

3 hours ago, ropy said:

I didn’t think it was a penalty at the game but it looks like a little bit of contact and he fell over so maybe, didn’t think the QotS shout was a penalty although I haven’t studied the new rules, but not enough seagull action for me 

It doesn't matter if there was a little bit of contact or not. If he could stay on his feet but chose to go down then it's a dive. It's spouted out constantly by pundits: "he felt contact so he's entitled to go down" - is he feck! The problem is most people seem to buy in to this drivel.

I'm not relating this specifically to the "incident" from Saturday, but you seem to be implying that if a player dives, then it doesn't matter what happened before the dive?

A dive for absolutely no reason with no contact, then I completely agree with your point. However if there is a foul, and then after it the player dives to the ground...that doesn't stop it being a foul.

Diving is caused just as much by referees not spotting/awarding penalties for things that don't result in a player being on the ground, as it it by pure simulation. They are both an issue, and only the latter tends to be highlighted.

Edited July 16, 2019 by Al B

[QoS_1919]

14 minutes ago, Al B said:

Diving is caused just as much by referees not spotting/awarding penalties for things that don't result in a player being on the ground, as it it by pure simulation. They are both an issue, and only the latter tends to be highlighted.

If a player is going to take a dive and cheat then there's nobody to blame but the player, not the Ref. 

[Al B]

55 minutes ago, QoS_1919 said:

If a player is going to take a dive and cheat then there's nobody to blame but the player, not the Ref. 

You're mixing together the 2 separate points i'm making, and reacting to them as one.

If, as you say....a player takes a dive and cheats then you are absolutely right, that's 100% on the player and he should be punished as such. But if a defender commits a foul in the box, then the attacker dives, that's still a penalty. In that situation questions need to be asked why referees are swayed by the consequence of the foul as opposed to the foul itself in isolation.

There are 2 types of dive with 2 different motivations, one to con the ref into seeing something that didn't happen, and the other when there has been a ligitimate foul but the player knows the ref is unlikely to give a penalty if he stays up.

I'm not saying on is diving and one isn't, im saying there's more than one reason for it, and they both need addressed.

Edited July 16, 2019 by Al B

[19QOS19]

I'm not relating this specifically to the "incident" from Saturday, but you seem to be implying that if a player dives, then it doesn't matter what happened before the dive?
A dive for absolutely no reason with no contact, then I completely agree with your point. However if there is a foul, and then after it the player dives to the ground...that doesn't stop it being a foul.
Diving is caused just as much by referees not spotting/awarding penalties for things that don't result in a player being on the ground, as it it by pure simulation. They are both an issue, and only the latter tends to be highlighted.

You can receive contact and still dive. This is what happened here. Mercer brushed him and he jumped up to win the penalty. Just because there is contact doesn't mean there's a foul. Football is a contact sport so if contact means foul then surely every shoulder barge is a foul?

If there is contact and a player is unable to stay on his feet, that's a foul. Hylton received minimal contact and hit the deck when he could have easily stayed on his feet: dived.

[Al B]

13 minutes ago, 19QOS19 said:

You can receive contact and still dive. This is what happened here. Mercer brushed him and he jumped up to win the penalty. Just because there is contact doesn't mean there's a foul. Football is a contact sport so if contact means foul then surely every shoulder barge is a foul?

If there is contact and a player is unable to stay on his feet, that's a foul. Hylton received minimal contact and hit the deck when he could have easily stayed on his feet: dived.

 

1 hour ago, Al B said:

I'm not relating this specifically to the "incident" from Saturday

 

But, to expand on your point (which I agree with btw), you can also dive and there still be a foul.

At no point am I saying that contact = foul. I'm saying that additionally, a dive doesn't automatically mean no foul.

To take it to it's most extreme for the sake of an example, If the defender walks up and boots the attacker in the balls, and the attacker swan dives holding his face, that's a dive...but still a foul and a penalty.

Like I said in my last post, im not saying diving is fine, i'm saying there's more than one reason for it and there's more to address than just players trying to con ref's into giving something that didn't happen. If that's all that's looked at, then the issue will never be helped.

Edited July 16, 2019 by Al B

[The Moonster]

This is going well...

[IainMorton]

2-0 up already...

[GiGi]

Early days but Dumbarton look abysmal. Especially at the back. Ooft.

[The Naitch]

3-0!

[vikingTON]

Dumbarton seem to have been replaced by Berwick Rangers this evening, strip included.

[IainMorton]

Ooft. We are all Jim Duffy.  

[GiGi]

 that goal

[Bring Back Paddy Flannery]

We really have gone full tinpot.

Those strips, those players and we didn't even bother announcing the starting 11 tonight.

[die hard doonhamer]

Queens a couple up with 2 goals in 3 minutes from Murray and Mercer. Lovely.

[Ira Gaines]

Fucking hell.

[GiGi]

Strange. Dumbarton usually turn up for their big derby game.