shopping in the high street

[Gaz]

45 minutes ago, 8MileBU said:

They are both places with a similar amount of shops within a similar size area of land, only Falkirk’s are half empty. Whether one was purpose built for shopping or not is largely irrelevant.

The shopping area of Livingston has a length of over a kilometre in a straight line - that's bigger than Silverburn.

West Bridge Street to the Bandstand isn't even half that.

You're comparing a purpose-built shopping area to a centuries-old High Street half its size and wondering why it's not as good?

[8MileBU]

The shopping area of Livingston has a length of over a kilometre in a straight line - that's bigger than Silverburn.
West Bridge Street to the Bandstand isn't even half that.
You're comparing a purpose-built shopping area to a centuries-old High Street half its size and wondering why it's not as good?

The High Street, Howgate & Calendar Square were what I was taking into account.

[Gaz]

45 minutes ago, 8MileBU said:

The High Street, Howgate & Calendar Square were what I was taking into account.

 

Regardless of what part you're taking into account, the facts are that Livingston has a far, far larger shopping area than Falkirk. And because it's purpose-built they haven't had any of the same restrictions (in planning and logistic terms) a town like Falkirk has had. It's been able to build as much car parking as it wants to whereas we've had to throw up tiny wee car parks on whatever land happens to become available.

It also benefits from having a major dual carriageway a minute away, whereas Falkirk Town Centre is a pain in the arse to get to from any decent road.

You're comparing apples and oranges.

[8MileBU]

Regardless of what part you're taking into account, the facts are that Livingston has a far, far larger shopping area than Falkirk. And because it's purpose-built they haven't had any of the same restrictions (in planning and logistic terms) a town like Falkirk has had. It's been able to build as much car parking as it wants to whereas we've had to throw up tiny wee car parks on whatever land happens to become available.
It also benefits from having a major dual carriageway a minute away, whereas Falkirk Town Centre is a pain in the arse to get to from any decent road.
You're comparing apples and oranges.

It doesn’t though, just far far more parking. Agreed about the road links though.

[Gaz]

7 minutes ago, 8MileBU said:

It doesn’t though

 

It really, really does.

[Shotgun]

It sounds as though a lot of Scottish towns are going through the same socio-economic shift suffered by US cities in the 70's and 80's. The shops which once brought people into the town centre relocated or went out of business, replaced by malls and big boxes. This led to a vicious cycle of other types of business relocating or going bust and the once thriving districts became crime-ridden wastelands where few wished to venture.

I'm not sure it would be practical in Scotland but here, many of the cities embarked on decades-long projects to revitalise their downtown areas by encouraging developers to build new restaurants and shops in amongst upscale residential developments. Invariably this was anchored around a major attraction - usually a taxpayer subsidised sports stadium or arena.

Whatever happens in Scotland though; I don't see the days of the weekly trip for the whole family to the high-street shops ever returning. Society has moved on and any future plans will need to account for this. 

[8MileBU]

It really, really does.

Right, whatever. This is getting boring now... Falkirk’s shops are shite but there’s no good reason it should be quite as grim as it is. Wouldn’t have any sympathy for Exit & Quest were they to go tits up though. Creepy auld crooks and cretins.

[Gaz]

13 minutes ago, 8MileBU said:

Right, whatever. This is getting boring now... Falkirk’s shops are shite but there’s no good reason it should be quite as grim as it is.

 

You're absolutely right on both counts, but we'll have to agree to disagree as I don't think it fair to compare it to Livingston.

Just out of interest, why the hatred for Exit and Quest?

[UsedToGoToCentralPark]

Lot of cash in Livingston as well as there are good jobs and really well paid jobs within an easy commute as well. TBF I've not been in the town centre (which it is) for a number of years but with the huge Walmart, old shops, eating bit a d outlet with cinema it's got something for most people. I do think its location between Edinburgh and Glasgow owes a lot to its success as well.

[Silvio Tattiescone]

Livingston has a purpose designed shopping centre from the ground up - the entire town was planned around it. It's entirely undercover with thought given not only to comprehensive parking, but delivery areas all the shops can access easily.  The layout is structured with dining areas, toilets, seating and information points all thought out. The footfall is managed and the owners can just about guarantee businesses customers. At night they can close it and secure the premises from the drunks, druggies and arseholes. This is all called providing services and facilities businesses want and are willing to pay for.

 

Falkirk is semi-residential so you have the type of people who live in short-term rented accommodation all year round wandering about. Many shops are up narrow closes and not easy to find and the footfall flow is leading to one end (both ends?) shutting down, partly because people don't want to wander around in the rain but also because the retail park sucks shoppers away from the town centre. The retail park itself is pretty shit too, come to think of it. 

 

You can certainly compare the two but they're not comparable. 

[Silvio Tattiescone]

Didn't we used to have a woman on these boards? We should ask her, she'll know.

[Hedgecutter]

Personally, I blame the Medieval town planners.  In the case of Falkirk, there was a decent settlement building up in the 1700s and obviously not a single ignorant person took technological advances into consideration.  Did they honestly think that people were going to travel about on horses forever more?  Did they not think that they could make the streets that little bit wider, maybe for a bit more natural light?

At least in Aberdeen they took the bold decision to say "right, f*** it" and built a big, straight mile long bridge over any of the awkward twisty shite that stood in the way of what would become Union Street. 

Flatten the f***ing lot I say.  

[8MileBU]

You're absolutely right on both counts, but we'll have to agree to disagree as I don't think it fair to compare it to Livingston.
Just out of interest, why the hatred for Exit and Quest?

They’re a bunch of cringey old men dressing like they’re 18, one of whom pocketed my mates sons wallet with £150 in it.

[Sergeant Wilson]

3 hours ago, NewBornBairn said:

Didn't we used to have a woman on these boards? We should ask her, she'll know.

I'm not lifting slabs to ask her.

[Silvio Tattiescone]

1 hour ago, Hedgecutter said:

Personally, I blame the Medieval town planners.  In the case of Falkirk, there was a decent settlement building up in the 1700s and obviously not a single ignorant person took technological advances into consideration.  Did they honestly think that people were going to travel about on horses forever more?  Did they not think that they could make the streets that little bit wider, maybe for a bit more natural light?

At least in Aberdeen they took the bold decision to say "right, f*** it" and built a big, straight mile long bridge over any of the awkward twisty shite that stood in the way of what would become Union Street. 

Flatten the f***ing lot I say.  

Exactly.  Look at Edinburgh,  building the castle so conveniently close to the train station.

[Dan Steele]

1 hour ago, Hedgecutter said:

In the case of Falkirk, there was a decent settlement building up in the 1700s and obviously not a single ignorant person took technological advances into consideration.  Did they honestly think that people were going to travel about on horses forever more?   

Give it time. They've only recently got the Falkirk Wheel.

[D.A.F.C]

Regarding the rates I'm a bit unsure why with an extra 15000 people paying tax since the 1990s dunfermline has went from a nice town centre to a toilet and the council charging the same rates as princes street in Edinburgh?

We've lost a hospital, the parks and public spaces are a mess and recently lost the fireworks display and christmas lights.

Where is the money going exactly?

 

 

[coprolite]

2 hours ago, D.A.F.C said:

Regarding the rates I'm a bit unsure why with an extra 15000 people paying tax since the 1990s dunfermline has went from a nice town centre to a toilet and the council charging the same rates as princes street in Edinburgh?

We've lost a hospital, the parks and public spaces are a mess and recently lost the fireworks display and christmas lights.

Where is the money going exactly?

 

 

Social care budgets. Demographic bulge you see. 

[BillyAnchor]

3 hours ago, D.A.F.C said:

Regarding the rates I'm a bit unsure why with an extra 15000 people paying tax since the 1990s dunfermline has went from a nice town centre to a toilet and the council charging the same rates as princes street in Edinburgh?

We've lost a hospital, the parks and public spaces are a mess and recently lost the fireworks display and christmas lights.

Where is the money going exactly?

 

 

The man walking around pushing a pram put me off Dunfermline.

[Sergeant Wilson]

3 hours ago, D.A.F.C said:

Regarding the rates I'm a bit unsure why with an extra 15000 people paying tax since the 1990s dunfermline has went from a nice town centre to a toilet and the council charging the same rates as princes street in Edinburgh?

We've lost a hospital, the parks and public spaces are a mess and recently lost the fireworks display and christmas lights.

Where is the money going exactly?

 

 

Cowdenbeath.