Highland Pyramid

[stulch]

You need to deal with the Pyramid with a degree of practicality, strong leagues at the top end, weaker leagues further down. Having a very weak league which barely anyone in the wider game has heard of, and doesn't even have Scottish Cup access for it's champion club, feeding into a tier 5 league just because of geography isn't really a solution.
Plus, we don't actually have any information at all over what is going on, nor whether the NRJFA would or would not accept the NCL as a feeder. All we're doing is hypothesising. In the same regard, I'm sure the HL don't fancy Orkney or Thurso as members either, they're a very "traditional" organisation and having them in the tier below with a direct chance of promotion would probably give them palpitations
Let's see what happens, something is better than nothing. Personally I think a HL2 would help smooth things out and bring Tayside on board, whilst keeping NCL at a more realistic level.
The Tayside question remains unanswered.
 
 
 
 

If you go with tier 6 without the NCL though where do the likely first relegated club, Fort William, go though, if they do get relegated? Do they skip a tier? Go to HL2 and then make HL2 a region wide HL2 anyway?

I would have thought a play-off involving the NCL which admittedly they would rarely win, would be better? Not ideal I know...

[Burnie_man]

3 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

Don't see why there needs to be a tier 6 in the North, just for the sake of matching the South where you have lots of interested and capable clubs. The NCL and North Juniors are amateur pub teams in all but name, asides from maybe Banks o Dee who refused an invitation to the HL last season. It's the equivalent of having about tier 10 in the South, what's the point? If clubs are willing, and prepared and able to invest in floodlights etc, then fair enough, I'd love to see the likes of Orkney in the HL, and demotion/promotion. It's not worth the price of turning the HL into 2x10 though, and I don't see where the 2x16 teams would come from.

The Tayside question remains unresolved, but IF  (and it's a big IF)  Tayside Juniors are persuaded to start getting actively involved in the North, then a HL2 could look something like;

Fort William (Licenced)

Banks O'Dee (Licenced)

Golspie Sutherland (Licenced)

Culter

Hermes

Bridge of Don Thistle

Dyce Juniors

Montrose Roselea

Carnoustie Panmure

Broughty Athletic

Lochee United

Dundee North End

Downfield

Forfar West End

Kirrie Thistle

East Craigie

Not many of them can be described as pub teams, and the majority of games in the Dundee to Aberdeen corridor.

[Marten]

11 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

Don't see why there needs to be a tier 6 in the North, just for the sake of matching the South where you have lots of interested and capable clubs. The NCL and North Juniors are amateur pub teams in all but name, asides from maybe Banks o Dee who refused an invitation to the HL last season. It's the equivalent of having about tier 10 in the South, what's the point? If clubs are willing, and prepared and able to invest in floodlights etc, then fair enough, I'd love to see the likes of Orkney in the HL, and demotion/promotion. It's not worth the price of turning the HL into 2x10 though, and I don't see where the 2x16 teams would come from.

If the proposals that are rumoured go ahead, it will be the most straightforward. Just tuck the NCL & NRJFA below the HL with a possibility for ambitious clubs to get promoted, yet clubs keep playing the same opposition in the same competitions. Nothing will change except for there being a route for clubs that want to take it, whilst clubs that don't just stay where they are.

[Burnie_man]

6 minutes ago, stulch said:

If you go with tier 6 without the NCL though where do the likely first relegated club, Fort William, go though, if they do get relegated? Do they skip a tier? Go to HL2 and then make HL2 a region wide HL2 anyway?

I would have thought a play-off involving the NCL which admittedly they would rarely win, would be better? Not ideal I know...

One or two "outlier" clubs aren't going to make much of a difference really, and on the flip side, FW could take a voluntary relegation to the NCL if the so wished, or they may feel less out of their depth in a HL2.

[welshbairn]

18 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

The Tayside question remains unresolved, but IF  (and it's a big IF)  Tayside Juniors are persuaded to start getting actively involved in the North, then a HL2 could look something like;

Fort William (Licenced)

Banks O'Dee (Licenced)

Golspie Sutherland (Licenced)

Culter

Hermes

Bridge of Don Thistle

Dyce Juniors

Montrose Roselea

Carnoustie Panmure

Broughty Athletic

Lochee United

Dundee North End

Downfield

Forfar West End

Kirrie Thistle

East Craigie

Not many of them can be described as pub teams, and the majority of games in the Dundee to Aberdeen corridor.

That's not a Highland League 2, it's the North East. Why would Golspie be remotely interested?

[FairWeatherFan]

4 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

That's not a Highland League 2, it's the North East. Why would Golspie be remotely interested?

The Highland League isn't a 'Highland' league.

[Burnie_man]

2 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

That's not a Highland League 2, it's the North East. Why would Golspie be remotely interested?

I guess the question is why wouldn't they be, are they interested in the Pyramid (we're assured the NCL are) therefore their clubs need to be prepared to travel wherever that takes you within the HL area if they go to a higher tier, which includes Dundee. Otherwise, leave them out of it for the time being and concentrate on getting NRJFA and Tayside in.

 

 

[welshbairn]

6 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

I guess the question is why wouldn't they be, are they interested in the Pyramid (we're assured the NCL are) therefore their clubs need to be prepared to travel wherever that takes you within the HL area if they go to a higher tier, which includes Dundee. Otherwise, leave them out of it for the time being and concentrate on getting NRJFA and Tayside in.

 

 

I'd sooner back Brechin in getting the boundary shifted North, which would please most of the Tayside teams. How do you think Lochee would take to playing all their away games North of Inverness?

Edited February 28, 2020 by welshbairn

[Burnie_man]

1 minute ago, welshbairn said:

I'd sooner back Brechin in getting the border shifted North, which would please most of the Tayside teams. How do you think Lochee would take to playing all their away games North of Inverness?

Why would Lochee play all their away games north of Inverness?

I'm sure the NCL clubs have thought about the consequences of promotion.  Golspie winning a future NCL/NRJFA play-off and going to the HL is a very real possibility, and it's not as if that doesn't involve a hell of a lot of travel.

[welshbairn]

9 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

Why would Lochee play all their away games north of Inverness?

I'm sure the NCL clubs have thought about the consequences of promotion.  Golspie winning a future NCL/NRJFA play-off and going to the HL is a very real possibility, and it's not as if that doesn't involve a hell of a lot of travel.

Have many or any Tayside clubs expressed an interest in playing in the Highland League?

[Burnie_man]

3 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

Have many or any Tayside clubs expressed an interest in playing in the Highland League?

They're already in the HL area.  Would the LL and EoS like to see them in their area?    That's the conundrum of the Tayside question.

At the moment they are Junior so it is largely immaterial, they may remain that way.  Has anyone from HL and/or NRJFA engaged with them, they play in a Regional cup with the NRJFA afterall.

[welshbairn]

I'll take that as a no.

[Burnie_man]

6 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

I'll take that as a no.

The answer of course is nobody publicly, but who knows privately behind doors (where most of these discussions take place).  Have the HL or NRJFA pro-actively engaged with them?

On the flip side I'm not aware of any Tayside club testing the resolve of the LL/EoS either.

So the only conclusion anyone can draw is that they're happy doing what they're doing for the time being.  

Edited February 28, 2020 by Burnie_man

[Spyro]

The HL should go down to 14-16 teams, with a HL2 below with 2 conference’s of 8 (North West and South East) to minimise travel. That gives the HL a more manageable 26-30 games plus the cups, and HL2 would have 14 conference games plus 7 inter-conference games giving 21 games in total with only 3-4 ‘treks’ to play far away teams plus cups and a end of season playoff...

 

EDIT: Or 2 conferences of 9 so there’s 24 games in total with a guaranteed 4 ‘treks’ per season.

HL2 would be an unlicensed league and perfect stepping stone for clubs to progress, or a cushion for clubs coming down

Edited February 28, 2020 by Spyro

[FairWeatherFan]

2 hours ago, Burnie_man said:

The answer of course is nobody publicly, but who knows privately behind doors (where most of these discussions take place).  Have the HL or NRJFA pro-actively engaged with them?

On the flip side I'm not aware of any Tayside club testing the resolve of the LL/EoS either.

So the only conclusion anyone can draw is that they're happy doing what they're doing for the time being.  

[welshbairn]

18 minutes ago, Spyro said:

The HL should go down to 14-16 teams, with a HL2 below with 2 conference’s of 8 (North West and South East) to minimise travel. That gives the HL a more manageable 26-30 games plus the cups, and HL2 would have 14 conference games plus 7 inter-conference games giving 21 games in total with only 3-4 ‘treks’ to play far away teams plus cups and a end of season playoff...

 

EDIT: Or 2 conferences of 9 so there’s 24 games in total with a guaranteed 4 ‘treks’ per season.

HL2 would be an unlicensed league and perfect stepping stone for clubs to progress, or a cushion for clubs coming down

Sounds reasonable if the clubs were up for it. Would be majorly lopsided if the Tayside clubs were included though.

[Spyro]

15 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

Sounds reasonable if the clubs were up for it. Would be majorly lopsided if the Tayside clubs were included though.

Yes, the ‘line’ would be very near to Aberdeen I imagine, meaning the NCL winners (if promoted) would have a fair amount of travelling, but it would evolve over time with some northern current HL clubs dropping down so it should work out long term. There would be no regional split in HL2, it would be treated as a 16 team league with only 1-2 promotion places available from the NCL, North Juniors and Tayside... unless the Tayside clubs join up with the North Juniors

Edited February 28, 2020 by Spyro

[Jimmy Shaker]

The HL should go down to 14-16 teams, with a HL2 below with 2 conference’s of 8 (North West and South East) to minimise travel. That gives the HL a more manageable 26-30 games plus the cups, and HL2 would have 14 conference games plus 7 inter-conference games giving 21 games in total with only 3-4 ‘treks’ to play far away teams plus cups and a end of season playoff...
 
EDIT: Or 2 conferences of 9 so there’s 24 games in total with a guaranteed 4 ‘treks’ per season.
HL2 would be an unlicensed league and perfect stepping stone for clubs to progress, or a cushion for clubs coming down

The SHFL in general manages its fixture load quite well. Everyone knows who the problem child is.

And what ‘treks’ exist? It’s a league that barely covers a third of a small country.

[stulch]

Well, hopefully something, in whatever form it is, will be set up either before next season or the season after. As a pyramid in the North of just 17 or 18 isn't ideal.

[Jimmy Shaker]

Something will be. Whether it’ll suit the crayon-wielding types on here, it’s hard to say. I’m guessing.... it won’t.