cmontheloknow Posted September 18, 2019 Share Posted September 18, 2019 5 minutes ago, Burnie_man said: Yeah I added that bit, and asked if any Junior club in the West have actually asked the question re membership. There's seemed to be some dubiety over whether non-senior teams would be accepted. The bit you highlighted contains "invited", which perhaps covers why East Fife are in it, but no non-senior clubs. Has re-instatement been abolished yet in the Junior game? if not, that may create an issue of player movement between the adult team and U20. One issue is that Junior sides can't sign more than 25 players so couldn't carry the numbers. I am sure I read that use of delayed transfers from the SYFA is problematic in the pyramid, so I can only assume that would also apply to the LLu20? Reinstatement lives on. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnie_man Posted September 18, 2019 Share Posted September 18, 2019 5 minutes ago, cmontheloknow said: One issue is that Junior sides can't sign more than 25 players so couldn't carry the numbers. I am sure I read that use of delayed transfers from the SYFA is problematic in the pyramid, so I can only assume that would also apply to the LLu20? Reinstatement lives on. There is no player limit in the senior game. If re-instatement lives on (unbelievably), then I think that kyboshes it along with squad limits. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BTID Posted September 18, 2019 Author Share Posted September 18, 2019 Some really good points above guys. So do we think the juniors old rules might be the issue here? Aren’t they aligning with the sfa though regards to discipline so maybe this rule will be also? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bestsinceslicebread Posted September 18, 2019 Share Posted September 18, 2019 (edited) I have very strong views of this First of all I think the situation with a lot of junior clubs, should they join the pyramid, should they not, is more in their thoughts before they would consider a development team, which is understandable. I have been coaching youth teams for a long time and all at different ages and also on games days either a Saturday and sunday so I have seen the pros and cons of both. Is it beneficial to have a youth team, especially a development team playing on a different day rather then the same day and time as the junior/first team. Yes it is. Example, Pollok U19s two year ago played in the Cumbernauld and Kilsyth league and reputed to be the best in Scotland at u19s (99s). The Pollok team played on a Sunday, we worked on an online exposure program, on the local Pollok forum and facebook, twitter etc.. to inform fans about the team and the players. What happened, eventually we started getting a lot fo first team fans coming to watch our games and fans wanting to see specifically some of our players and we had our final league decider against Clydebank at Newlandsfield with a crowd just under 400 which Pollok won. In the end up from that team, we had 5 players sign duel contracts with Pollok First team, 1 went to Patrick Thistle, now full time, one went to Stirling Albion, 1 went to Livingston, 5 went to BSC development squad, 1 to Larkhall, 1 to Johnston burgh. Most of the players never even made it to U21s as they went to a higher level. Right now I know of a few amazing teams that are part of academies or connected with a junior team that play on a Saturday including one of the teams previously I coached, these teams are at U17s, U19s U16 etc.. and these teams have always played on a Saturday as have the coaches been part of the team, These teams will continue their youth lifespan on a Saturday and when they are older at u19s, U21s none of the first team fans or management will see these lads, which in turn gives the lads a restricted chance of being noticed and signed. Right now, if my son was young and I wanted him to play for a team, if that team had a connection with either a Junior or Senior team and the youth team played on a Saturday it really would put me off taking my son to that team. A development league with the West teams would be great either Friday or Sunday or both, also right now, there are a few teams who can easily adapt this idea and add a development squad straight away, Clydebank, Pollok, Syngenta, (if not already) and quite a few others. The league that played on a Sunday last year had a bit of contention from some of the U17 teams that were moving up to U19s as most of them wanted to play on a Saturday, so now it means that each team preference when they play at home they can play on the day they want, Friday, Saturday and or Sunday and has to be confirmed by both teams that's its ok and verified by the league. My view of the U21 standard is that its stagnant and stale, the u21s has been the same way since I played in it and is losing teams, not just the West Leagues fault right enough but they are to partly blame but kids nowadays have too much opportunities of other things to keep interested. The U21 west league is the only U21 league in Scotland as far as I'm aware as when the 28 east teams joining the Senior ranks they took with them local lads from the u19s and u21s team so effectively there is no challenge from the east in the major cups. If there was to be a development league in the West do you think it would be the death nail for the u21s,?, Nope, not my view as I don't believe so. We would have a situation where most part time clubs including junior now have development team meaning kids growing up will be excited to see there is now a better chance to go to a higher grade and with that there would be a need for u21 teams connection with the senior/junior team and thus more progression to be gain going higher. Its a way forward to keep lads interested in football and committed to being developed to enter a higher level. My intention is to go back to youth coaching or join a junior team staff but I wont be with any team that is at U21s, as I just don't see any progression and I aint the only coach with this view of U21s. There are still problems with playing on a different day, pitch availability, prices etc.. so this all has to be worked on but everyone coming together and working out ideas can only help Edited September 21, 2019 by Bestsinceslicebread 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginaro Posted September 18, 2019 Share Posted September 18, 2019 6 hours ago, cmontheloknow said: One issue is that Junior sides can't sign more than 25 players so couldn't carry the numbers. I am sure I read that use of delayed transfers from the SYFA is problematic in the pyramid, so I can only assume that would also apply to the LLu20? Reinstatement lives on. The U20s rules say that SYFA players can play 12 times as a trialist (league only) but need written consent from their other club. Up to five trialists can play in each (league) game. 1 hour ago, Bestsinceslicebread said: Is it beneficial to have a youth team, especially a development team playing on a different day rather then the same day and time as the junior/first team. Yes it is. Example, Pollok U19s two year ago played in the Cumbernauld and Kilsyth league and reputed to be the best in Scotland at u19s (99s). The Pollok team played on a Sunday, we worked on an online exposure program, on the local Pollok forum and facebook, twitter etc.. to inform fans about the team and the players. What happened, eventually we stated getting a lot fo first team fans coming to watch our games and fans wanting to see specifically some of our players and we had our final league decider against Clydebank at Newlandsfield with a crowd just under 400 which Pollok won. In the end up from that team, we had 5 players sign duel contracts with Pollok, 1 went to Patrick Thistle, now full time, one went to Stirling Albion, 1 went to Livingston, 5 went to BSC development squad, 1 to Larkhall, 1 to Johnston burgh. Most of the players never even made it to U21s as they went to a higher level. The crowds have been building in the Lowland U20s, some recent examples below. Think there was a couple of hundred for Kelty v HOB last season. Playing on a different day might also help with referees, as I notice in the east some refs are doing Friday U20s and then EOS games the next day either on their own or as an AR. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bestsinceslicebread Posted September 18, 2019 Share Posted September 18, 2019 (edited) 36 minutes ago, Ginaro said: The U20s rules say that SYFA players can play 12 times as a trialist (league only) but need written consent from their other club. Up to five trialists can play in each (league) game. The crowds have been building in the Lowland U20s, some recent examples below. Think there was a couple of hundred for Kelty v HOB last season. Playing on a different day might also help with referees, as I notice in the east some refs are doing Friday U20s and then EOS games the next day either on their own or as an AR. One of the problems in the West is there is less pitches now and teams that looked into the possibility of Friday nights found it hard to have a pitch available Friday night but that's something each club with have to arrange themselves and organise which I'm sure with a little work can be done. The exposure we had for the Pollok u19s team was that a couple of us worked in the It field of SEO and this helped to maximise the exposure so I'm sure this is something each club will expand on in the future of which I'm sure a few are doing well so far and if there's a development league I'm sure the attendances will do well and grow as local fans will show an interest in the their local teams youth teams and thus with interest it all the local young lads will want involved so its a snowball effect. The sad fact, the following year the Next Pollok U19s team, (going into their final year at u19s) know one really knew much about them, well in detail and I don't think any of the lads made it, well certainly not with the Pollok first team, coincidence that team played on a Saturday but again they didn't have anyone to help them get the maximum exposure to gain a higher interest in what they had. They were beaten for the league in a league play off right enough but when coaching your got to decide what to you is success, winning trophies at youth level or developing lads, (be great to have both), earlier as possible to move into a higher level. No this aint knocking that particular team is just an aspect that goes on through many youth teams in Scotland so the sooner a development league with a structure stars in the Wet, the better, First of all I may add, I'm not condoning the U21 league, I think it should stay , just the league have been very static and stale and not done anything to build exposure. I think the official website is typical of the attitude by many in that field. I feel the people who fight these ideas I feel are either not knowledgeable in all aspects of the pros and cons or they are just looking after their own benefit. Edited September 18, 2019 by Bestsinceslicebread 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclizine Posted September 18, 2019 Share Posted September 18, 2019 9 hours ago, BTID said: Eos 21s disbanded when the 20s came in and the north is u20 as well I’m sure it also finishes at U19s. Aye, the Aberdeenshire & District League is U20 and a North of Scotland U20 league was set up in the last couple of years. There's some SPFL teams entered (Elgin, Cove) and a junior representative in Banks o' Dee. Peterhead have been known to enter in the past as well as some North Caley sides. Matches are played on a Monday night. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wow-wee Posted September 18, 2019 Share Posted September 18, 2019 7 hours ago, cmontheloknow said: One issue is that Junior sides can't sign more than 25 players so couldn't carry the numbers. I am sure I read that use of delayed transfers from the SYFA is problematic in the pyramid, so I can only assume that would also apply to the LLu20? Reinstatement lives on. Yes you can register up to 25 senior players then you can sign players from youth teams up to u21s on dual contract over and above your 25 senior players not sure how many dual contracts you can sign . 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BTID Posted September 18, 2019 Author Share Posted September 18, 2019 Looks like everyone is in agreement it makes a lot of sense to have a West 20s league. Probably like it makes a lot of sense for a West league in the pyramid. Who will step up and take the lead... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmontheloknow Posted September 18, 2019 Share Posted September 18, 2019 24 minutes ago, wow-wee said: Yes you can register up to 25 senior players then you can sign players from youth teams up to u21s on dual contract over and above your 25 senior players not sure how many dual contracts you can sign . I think it's 20 on SYFA forms but wasn't sure if there was an age cut off on it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BTID Posted September 18, 2019 Author Share Posted September 18, 2019 2 hours ago, Ginaro said: The U20s rules say that SYFA players can play 12 times as a trialist (league only) but need written consent from their other club. Up to five trialists can play in each (league) game. The crowds have been building in the Lowland U20s, some recent examples below. Think there was a couple of hundred for Kelty v HOB last season. Playing on a different day might also help with referees, as I notice in the east some refs are doing Friday U20s and then EOS games the next day either on their own or as an AR. We got 91 on Sunday afternoon and the two Friday night friendlies we played (in horrendous weather) still got 60 and 80 odd. Lucky if we got double figures last season on saturday afternoon most times. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginaro Posted September 18, 2019 Share Posted September 18, 2019 2 hours ago, Bestsinceslicebread said: One of the problems in the West is there is less pitches now and teams that looked into the possibility of Friday nights found it hard to have a pitch available Friday night but that's something each club with have to arrange themselves and organise which I'm sure with a little work can be done. Who else is using pitches on a Friday night? 1 hour ago, BTID said: Looks like everyone is in agreement it makes a lot of sense to have a West 20s league. Probably like it makes a lot of sense for a West league in the pyramid. Who will step up and take the lead... Well it'll have to be a club that wants to play U20s, perhaps one that has a representative as the head of the West Region? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bestsinceslicebread Posted September 19, 2019 Share Posted September 19, 2019 (edited) On 18/09/2019 at 23:56, Ginaro said: Who else is using pitches on a Friday night? Well it'll have to be a club that wants to play U20s, perhaps one that has a representative as the head of the West Region? Lots of pitches are used for training sessions not only amateur, but a lot of the younger youth teams use a lot of Astor pitches and with league games, there's a vibrant over 35s league in Glasgow and surrounding areas that play only on a Friday night which is coming to an end of already has. adding to that a vibrant women's and girls football training. As stated earlier, well I'm sure it was, there is or definitely was a group set up on WhatsApp with ideas on how to develop the older youths both at U21s and with key elements of playing Friday evening football and also the ideas on working out a structure for a u20 league and was mostly coaches on the u21s and they all admitted after looking into it that they found that if they managed to get u21s to turn to a Friday evening then they would find it extremely difficult to all have to have pitches available for a Friday. This was mainly from teams on the West I may add Edited September 20, 2019 by Bestsinceslicebread 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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